Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped?

[ChrisMaidment08]

correct rose  but then its up to person who owns birds but me gone  why would you keep birds that are infected  yes they look great yes they have good body condition yes they fly but thats it what use if you cant breed from them if you have any sense cull clean start again

[me]

 

I think unfortunately the days off not being able to treat have gone but should be done properly dont think treating for the sake of treating is the answer only fastens the process of diseases becoming immune to what you are using  

 

Just in case anyone gets confused by your language Rose, using antibiotics does not harm the birds immune system in any way.

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

 

Just in case anyone gets confused by your language Rose, using antibiotics does not harm the birds immune system in any way.

  that one cofuse.s me why does over use of antibiotics affect humans but not pigeons?????

 

 

[Guest]

dont disagree with you there chris but the big ques. is where do you get the stock to do that and how do you know they are clear?

[me]

  that one cofuse.s me why does over use of antibiotics affect humans but not pigeons?????

 

 

Overuse of antibiotics does not harm the human immune system either.

 

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

someone in our club had it two years ago best? flyer??? this year crap why cos he treated now best part this years young fine till training and stress then bang here we go all dropping dead all in state what did he do topped lot none left now he has all new stock and latebreds for next year best way

[ChrisMaidment08]

dont disagree with you there chris but the big ques. is where do you get the stock to do that and how do you know they are clear?

  good question cernanatly not from local flyers they say virus is airbourne me i dont know   mine come from 180 miles away

 

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

 

Overuse of antibiotics does not harm the human immune system either.

 

  oh ok then i have diverse ticalitus and need antibiotics on lots times but i have to suffer cos of over use and they do affect youer imune system

 

 

[ch pied]

under doseing, in my veiw is the bigger evil , resulting in restsistance build up to any anti-bos that we may need to use,,,,,,,,, treat long & treat hard

[me]

 

Dont know who told you that but its rubbish

 

Lets get this one put to bed. There is a big difference between an animal's immune system and the bacteria in its gut. Once a pathogen has entered the blood stream any doctor who did not try to save their patient using "against life" treatment to help their patient could possibly be asking to be struck off. Or for that matter a charge of manslaughter!

 

Hope thats cleared it up for you Rose! All the best with your doos health.

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

overdoseing humans distroys there imune system or are the doctors telling me porkys

[me]

under doseing, in my veiw is the bigger evil , resulting in restsistance build up to any anti-bos that we may need to use,,,,,,,,, treat long & treat hard

 

This is by far the most intelligent post on this thread any time recently(apart from "me" of course!!!).

 

 

[me]

overdoseing humans distroys there imune system or are the doctors telling me porkys

 

Thankfully mine has never told "me" that if I was you I would change doctor. Hope this helps!

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

oh well then when my guts is full of puss i will tell um u said its alright to let me take tabs every day as it wont harm my immune system then i wont need to suffer the pain and problems ;)

[Guest anto]

i

  iam 35 years around pigeons the only cure 4 paratyphoid is a black bag

[Guest]

 

If what you say is right Chris there is only one answer with what to do with them as if you got carriers its going to pass through and going to be a never ending problem

 

Surely tht's the principal of building up natural immunity?

[frank1]

ame: Enrofloxacin   (Baytril)

Description: Enrofloxacin is a synthetic chemotherapeutic agent from the quinolone class of drugs. It has antibactericidal activity against a broad spectrum of gram + and gram - bacteria.  It is rapidly absorbed and penetrates all body tissues well.

Usage: Enrofloxacin can be used with any bacterial infection showing susceptibility to the drug.

Adverse reactions: Enrofloxacin causes increased mortality in the egg when the hen is treated during egg formation. It will cause cartilage abnormalities in growing squabs, especially during the 1st week to 10 days of age. This. however, is not always seen.

Dosage: 5 - 10 mg/bird divided daily for 7 - 14 days. 150 - 600 mg/gallon for 7 - 14 days.

Comments: Probably the best drug we have for the gram - infections of pigeons. It is the only drug shown to prevent recurrence of shedding in most cases of salmonella infection at 6 mg/pound for 10 days. We assume that this means the carrier state has been eliminated in these birds. The liquid water soluble form is not yet approved for use in the U.S. Because of the base used in the tablets, they are not soluble in water by any means

[me]

oh well then when my guts is full of puss i will tell um u said its alright to let me take tabs every day as it wont harm my immune system then i wont need to suffer the pain and problems ;)

 

Don't think I said that so why you should post the above is a little tiresome to "me" as you are the second forum member to do something similar tonight.

 

May I ask have you alwas had difficulty with comprehension?

 

 

[ChrisMaidment08]

;D 8) ;D ;D ;D ;D listen youer the expert im of to bed  over doseing with antibiotics is dangerous to all liveing spieces as it also distroys imune systen natural???

[frank1]

Protective effects of vaccines against experimental salmonellosis in racing pigeons

E Uyttebroek, LA Devriese, D Gevaert, R Ducatelle, J Nelis, and F Haesebrouck

Department of Avian Pathology, Faculty of Veterinary Medicine, University of Ghent, Belgium.

 

 

 

Five inactivated and one attenuated vaccine produced for the prevention of salmonellosis in pigeons were compared in an experimental challenge model. The birds were vaccinated according to the recommendations of the manufacturers and they were infected by gavage with a Salmonella typhimurium (var copenhagen) pigeon strain. The challenged control animals showed severe weight loss, excessive water intake over a prolonged period, and excreted large numbers of salmonellae. None of the vaccines fully protected the pigeons, and only an inactivated oil adjuvant vaccine was able to reduce the severity of the clinical signs significantly. Mortality was low and tended to increase with the severity of the clinical signs. These results do not justify the preventive use of salmonella vaccination in pigeons. Nevertheless, the oil adjuvant vaccine may help in the effective cleaning of lofts after an outbreak of salmonellosis

[me]

 

Think i better find myself a different specialist because its not what i was told about using antibiotics and what it had done to my immune system either    Its not what i been told by friends who i went to uni with who are vets either and the downfalls of using antibiotics

 

Apoligies Rose if I have guessed wrong and this post is not aimed at "me", but I will answer anyway just in case if you don't mind!

 

First point I have never heard of a vet telling a fancier to kill all his birds well or ill and to start again from scratch. In fact if you think about it telling you to do that and NOT START AGAIN would make more sense.

 

Secondly - Anyone who uses antibiotics willy nilly is asking for trouble with their health and the health of their birds how could it be any other way?

 

Thirdly - Anyone who refuses to seek or indeed accept intelligent advice from a vet when required , maybe banned from keeping animals (including birds) if this leads to the pain and suffering of the animals in his charge.

 

By the way the last point is the law of the land. Think about it!

 

[me]

  oh ok then i have diverse ticalitus and need antibiotics on lots times but i have to suffer cos of over use and they do affect youer imune system

 

 

Know they don't they sometimes positvely discriminate in favour of bacteria you and "me" don't like. Hope this clears it up up for you!

 

 

[Guest IB]

All 'internal' skins in all animals which come into contact with the outside world are lined with a protective mucous. Within that mucous are 'white blood cells' produced by the body. Also within that mucous are friendly bacteria, mainly lactobacteria, and not produced by the body, but there with its consent. Collectively part of the immune system, these bacteria are just as sensitive to antibiotics,  and can be killed-off. That leaves spaces in the mucous open to colonisation by pathogens. One of the most common result of antibiotic use is a yeast overgrowth. Growth that lactobacteria had previously held in check, a process known as Competitive Exclusion.

 

Extract from a Swedish scientific paper, 2006

 

Competitive exclusion

The use of competitive exclusion, in which the normal intestinal flora protects the host against invading pathogens, is a valuable part of Salmonella control in poultry farming. Competitive exclusion cultures have been used and tested in various countries, as reviewed by Schneitz and Mead (52). Positive results from the use of competitive exclusion have also been reported in pigs (22).

 

Antimicrobials

The use of antimicrobials to prevent suffering and economic losses in individual animals and herds can be justified, but should always be combined with other Salmonella reduction measures. Antibiotics have sometimes been used to prevent animals shedding Salmonella (36), but the use of antibiotics in pigs with enterocolitis has not been found to reduce the prevalence, magnitude or duration of Salmonella shedding by sick or recovered animals (70). Earlier, similar observations were made for experimental and natural S. Dublin infections in cattle (65). Both these findings agree with results from the use of antibiotics in human salmonellosis, i.e. that they have long been recognised to prolong the carrier state (4).The use of antimicrobials for therapy or growth promotion may also disrupt the gut flora, which often increases the susceptibility of pigs to Salmonella infection. The use of antibiotics may thus act as a trigger to spread Salmonella infection throughout a herd, which would not have occurred if the animals remained untreated. This phenomenon has been thoroughly documented in poultry (57) and is also likely to occur in other animal species. The European Food Safety Authority recently gave an opinion on the use of antibiotics to control Salmonella in poultry (15), which concurred with that of WHO (74), i.e. that Salmonella control should not be based on antibiotics. The emergence of antibiotic resistance is another serious reason why antibiotics should be used with great care, as demonstrated by the emergence and fast spread of the multi-resistant S. Typhimurium definitive phage type (DT) 104 (60).

 

In developed countries, it is also becoming increasingly accepted that a majority of the resistant strains of zoonotic Salmonella spp. have acquired that resistance in an animal host before being transmitted to humans through the food chain (42, 60). The prevalence of resistant isolates in countries where intensive animal production is practised is between 10% and 30%. When herds are held under strong antibiotic selective pressures, due to the intensive use of antibiotics, the prevalence of resistant strains rises to between 60% and 90% (26). As these bacterial strains are of considerable potential clinical importance to human health, this is a matter of real concern.

 

 

[frank1]

Generally speaking, you need to keep canker and cocci under control. You will find that by treating your birds every 6-8 weeks throughout the year (you need not worry if the parents are pumping youngsters as it will in no way harm them), neither of these two conditions will ever be of concern again. Ridzol will take care of the canker and Amperol will more than suffice for cocci. These two products can be safely used together. The dosage is 1/2 teaspoon of Ridzol plus 12.55 cc of Amperol per gallon of water. You would use these together for 3-5 days depending on the original count. Remember that both of these organisms are always present in the pigeon. The point is not to eradicate but only to keep at a manageable level that does not adversely effect performance. Remember neither of these drugs are antibiotics.

[me]

 

The point i was making was antibiotics will possibly cure what you or any bird or animal has got but in doing so it also kills the  good bacteria that is necessary and can break down the immune system   In other words you might have cured what you had but you are open to pick up anything else because the use of antibiotics can seriously damage the immune system   Also the other thing that needs looking at is after treating with antibiotics the time it takes to build up the immune system again probably why some peoples birds are constantly sick they are back in the basket before they have fully recovered and end up picking up something else

 

 

I am afraid that is all part of being a doowumin or even more importantly just being a human being Rose. For instance people say there is no cure for a virus only SOME bacteria. Yet television is full of adverts at this time of year pleading with the suceptible to get the flu jab. Every year we are also ordered to jab our birds against para. Do you honestly believe that happens I can tell you now the answer is NO!

 

The humble opinion of "me" is the rise of salmonella in our birds is directly connected with the rise in para reducing our birds REAL IMMUNE SYSTEM. Think about it once that virus is in THE BLOOD STREAM salmonella then gets a chance to run wild if the opportunity arises!

 

Look after your birds people and sad as it seems somtimes protecting you birds will sometimes need the timeous administration of antibios treatment,

 

All the best.