DEEJAY

Yes i agree with all the variables, and a mob fly-er really will have a hard time picking birds that are ready, maybe that's why some of these flyers don't like the idea of limits? Great hearing your opinion on this, Happy flying and good day to you !

Yes that was my concern also, bad spot for a release, I would have to have a talk to that guy, I'm sure he could have found some place clear of those darn power lines, just too darn close for comfort! IMHO!

You should know your birds which are ready and those which need a rest, if you watch your birds closely you will know ! Also your terminology i really didn't understand at all, you said only 10% of birds flown are good, well if you fly only 10 then you have only one "1" bird worth a darn, now the other guy who flies 100 birds only has 10 birds worth a darn if i understand you correctly, i would rather have 10 birds against one bird any day! (this is the advantage of large numbers) Lets take your example of 40 birds wanting to fly, but only can basket only 20 for a race, so maybe the club should let you fly the other twenty this way you will learn how to pick birds which are ready, which is a skill all flyer's need to learn!

Yes i agree, the law of large numbers will always have an advantage! So how to make a true race of it? All things being equal, a level playing field can be had by everyone flying the same amount of birds, then there is no clear advantage over another fly-er, so IMHO a bird limit as far as the race is concerned is a good thing, just how many birds in a given race should be up to the individual clubs. If you have only one bird flying and it is an ace bird and all, it's chances of winning in a 2000 bird race go way down compared to someone flying 50 birds, it's obvious that the person flying 50 quality homers has the better chance to make the sheet than the one ace bird!

Hmmm, just what races has the bird won, just local club races, (which may be meaning less) because you have no idea of the quality of the birds flown at the club level, short distance, long distance, so many factors to consider, However the very big futurity races where many top flyer's race may be a better proving ground of the capabilities of the birds flown! Many that fly these races do so for the money, they fly lots of birds to get that win or position so it looks good on the pedigree and the right to charge people great sums of money for the off spring of these winners, again winners do not always breed winners, yes there are a few exceptional birds that win time and again but then again you have to really look hard at the races won, how many birds did the fly-er enter in the race, it would be better if all flyer's entered the same amount of birds then the results may have more meaning, the racing sport has become a money machine and a business for some so be careful in your purchase of pedigree birds! (there's nothing wrong in a pretty piece of paper if you must have it) Bottom line have fun flying, training and breeding your birds, the wins will come, it just takes time to recognize the athletes of your loft, even a bird that may seem to be a slacker at one race may prove to be an ace in another! Personally i don't worry about pedigrees those with the right stuff will be obvious in short order! So happy flying and remember to have fun that's what keeps us all here RIGHT!

There's a saying that came from Belgium concerning an American fly-er that wanted to purchase some good stock for his loft and paid a large amount of money for these birds which had vast pedigree's, the Belgium fly-er laughingly said to his friends "I sold a few pedigree's to an American and i threw in a few birds for free"! How many flyer's here really rely on pedigree's, I myself only use them as a base line, because a pedigree does not guarantee any bird will be a winner, having said that, it does offer a good starting point, but i would never count on it to produce winners, only flying, training, and culling will get you there, the pedigree birds only have the advantage that over many years all the training and culling has produced a TYPE of bird which may or may not produce winners, however still no GAURANTEE! Interested to hear other's opinion's on this subject!

Well the most I've spent on a bird was 20 Dollars U.S and that was in 1970, My wife thought i had lost my mind and couldn't believe i spent so much for a single bird LOL! That's chicken feed today ! LOL LMAO!

For sprint birds there is an old saying, the light that burns twice as bright lasts HALF as long, so i really don't like the sprint birds that much, but rather the long distance racers and try to get a nice middle ground 300, 400, and so forth, a bird that can only fly fast at 100 starts to fall short as distance takes a toll, so i would try to stick with those birds that have exceptional homing abilities from distance and then build on the clock speed of these birds, this gives a well rounded foundation for a loft, you may not be in the top 10 at 100 miles but may have a better chance when distance separates the men from the boys! JMHO! Every Fly-er has to decide for him or herself what type of bird he plans on racing, we know some types of birds are built and bred for the short races and some the long races, and still others which prove very capable of flying both short and long distances, these are the type of birds that I myself like to fly and make no mistake it takes a lot of time building a flock which can go both ways!

:)Thank you for all your comments and input really helps a lot! One question though, It's the electronic clock system which has made me consider getting back into the hobby and I've heard so much paranoia over this, Why don't the clubs just have races for both kinds of clocks? Also i remember that when i was young people hated to compete with flyer's that sent teams of birds like 20 or more to a local race which makes it hard for the new member which can only send in a few birds, have clubs addressed this so everyone competes on the same level and let the birds do the talking so to speak! Sorry if I'm rambling on here just excited for me and my grandsons which are very young as yet 6,6,8 win or lose it's the raising and racing the birds I love! Or will i be disappointed in the racing sport as flown today! :)

Yes keeping too many birds is very hard on the pocket book especially on a fixed income! Hence the hard line on culling birds!

Hi been away for a while , I plan on raising 30 young birds, usually end up with less than ten, of these a few will be given to some youngsters that are interested in keeping racers, I'm not in it for the money as some, i just love the birds and want to develope my own strain of hardy birds! On a personal note if things were on the other foot my birds would have culled me out a long time ago lol! Man it sucks to get old!

Sorry if i came on too strong Beans hard to tell if someone is joking around or not so forgive me please, now as for the clock question for those that know are you required to buy a certain brand of clock that your club uses or do all the clocks have the same interface no matter what brand you use? Curious because it is a big investment! Also do the various clubs have clocks that can be rented or used for the newest of members?

Young birds it's the stuff champions are made from---the proving ground so to speak! JMHO!

Birdman thankyou for the helpful information you provided! Beans what good was your post no help at all---you race pigeons not clocks just sounds dumb, you can't race without some sort of clock, clocks matter whether for training or racing and i see the electronics as the future of the sport, and a good tool to measure the training of the birds kept! Please be helpful and not so arrogant and nasty, there are enough people in the world like that, soon to be, Yours in the sport! Have a nice day!

Oh by the way I strongly believe in flying in less than perfect weather which tends to thin out the flock!

Well it may be hard, but it's better than killing them and it really is rare that i would have to go that far, cause hawks and weather can cull most of the flock, it's only the best of the best that you should be willing to keep! Also you never want to give anyone a bird that you wouldn't want to have yourself!

I still consider myself a youngster---I'm old enough to know better---but still young enough to get into trouble and I'm 56 years young and never growing up cause old people tend to get miserable the closer they get to the grave lol!

Your a person after my own heart, yes train, train, train, seperates the winners from the losers, why feed those that can't make the distance, all young birds have to prove themselves to earn their keep, for me it's better than culling birds, if they can make a 300 mile journy and i still have too many birds than a toss at 400 to seperate the cream of the crop and continued out to 500 miles, birds that continue to make it back to the loft at those distances deserve a place in the loft and possibly a breeding mate!

Iknow this is an old thread but you can't get a better answer then was given by the previous poster "Hyacinth" http://www.redroselofts.com/starter_loft.htm

I like your white pigeons reminds me of the belgium pletinkx i had years and years ago! Enjoy !

As i recall from years passed, old timers would call them prisoner birds and wouldn't even consider flying them until they had raised a couple of hatches in the loft! But that was a long time ago what do those old timers know anyways lol!

Here is the starter loft i plan to build with modifications! http://www.redroselofts.com/starter_loft.htm Check out the examples of lofts that were built using the starter loft as a guide line! Hope this helps!

Hi, i'm new, but think the electronis are the way to go in the future,I believe it will bring in many more members that would not have the time to stand around and wait for the birds to arrive (which i love)! So many people are running their kids to soccer, basketball, volleyball, swimming meets and the like that there is little time just to be there for the birds home coming, so the electronics may be the win--win situation for the future of racing pigeon clubs JMHO! P.S. If dad gets into it then the kids will follow and that is the real future as i see it!

For you that race pigeons, which racing clocks are the best today and why and I'm talking about the electronic clocks! Also what are the rules as far as placement of these electronic pads, I see some that are huge which may give a flyer an advantage in clocking in his birds, so why isn't the size a standard which all flyers would have the same size landing pad, say for instance a four pad senser with the same dimentions installed at a fixed place in the loft usually in front of the trap! The idea of electronic clocking has brought me back to the sport, knowing that you don't have to be right there to clock your bird is a plus for many people that have kids sporting events to attend plus other family events that will never have to be missed because of the electronic clocking! Hopefully then my kids and grandkids will continue to take up the sport of racing so it continues to grow! Soon to be in the sport God Willing! 8)

Hi all, just wanted to say there is no easy fix for this, our birds when racing cover all kinds of country and a few will be caught by the predator hawks---just a part of nature, killing them is not the answer, for myself i have hawks in my backyard which is not a good place for a loft