Rick Hall

I've followed the lost bird discussions with some interest, as I once kept a large loft of birds from a number of undistinguished sources for several years with next to no training flight losses. (I don't race but do fly them fair distances for my and their pleasure.) Now have a new loft, in a safer-from-prey-bird location, and initially stocked with floor birds of reputedly excellent racing blood that was brought on just as my others, yet suffered surprising, though not on your racing scale's, training flight losses. Some of it likely weather related but some a mystery... Perhaps just a fluke made more noticable by the relatively small scale I started this flock on. But we'll soon be seeing if different blood fares better in this new location. (Used to enjoy carrying birds on trips just to be released and allowed to stretch - and for the pleasure of finding them in the loft on my return. But I've become more cautious about distant releases than I'm happy with this go-round. Don't like having to worry over them.)

Bruno, am I correct in understanding that you're losing nearly all of a 30 youngbird start each year? That would drive me to golf.

Terry, I found brixsmaid's honest approach a refreshing change from the dissembling that so often passes for "discretion". Not always the most expedient approach, but honesty carries its own reward. So I'll be quite happy to "agree to disagree" with you. And add my thanks to all who responded honestly. Even the deep thinkers.

Freedom's a two-way door, Terry, and brixmaid certainly has as much democratic right to point out the real hoops racers put their birds through as some here have to post the false ones they image he might. Surely no one who isn't ashamed of them minds being reminded of the realities of their fancies.

I'm not particularly keen on fussing over moral high ground with zealots of any inclination, but my own poor, abused dog training birds are loafing in the trees around the house as I type. 'Course the loft trap is open, so they've always that option, as well. But they tend to vote with their wings to enjoy the freedoms their lot affords. Seem to find great pleasure in the sun. This evening they'll roost in the safety and comfort of the loft, of course, and in the morning some will earn their keep with a trip to the field and flight home. Get to pick their own mates and set they're own parental schedules, too. And even those that face the gun and feed my family will have died a swifter, more humane death than nature is apt to afford. Really doesn't seem such a bad life, and I'm certainly not ashamed to provide it. Sorry I haven't the financial resources to do what your countrymen apparently find unthinkable and get you started. I am ashamed of that.

Well, that would be prohibitive to me, but if brixmaid is willing to foot the bill and do the paperwork, I'll provide the birds gratis.

Of course not, as one might readily guess from my opening statement, "I'm not a racer, just an American lurker on this racing board who enjoys raising homers just to watch, as well as for gun dog training." Nor am I feeling or acting like a deer in the headlights. (Or at all surprised by the phenominon of some US postal employees...well, going postal. It's a big outfit with an apparent penchant for hiring the un-hinged.)

And pity I can't send you some from here. Or can anyone speak to the logistics and expense of such a trans-Atlantic shipment? Is it more feasable than I'm imagining?

See we've cross posted, Bruno. Can't say that I understand how it might be better to be killed by a friend than approached by a potential foe, but there's much of others' reasoning process in this world that befuddles me.

Would have thought the well-meaning but empty-headed PETA types had more than they could handle trying to keep up with we nasty hunters, much less the rest of the planet's meat eating population, to fool with pigeon fanciers. Perhaps your skittishness marks you as weak and, therefore, vulnerable prey. Dunno. Do know I've no desire to further anyone's discomfort unnecessarily and will drop the subject, unless futher interest is expressed, without raising it here again. Enjoy and appreciate the forum and wish to be a good guest.

Hyacinth, it had only just occured to me that this thread might be drawing such poor response because of fear of UK "animal rights" fanatics, and having earned my livelihood first writing about hunting and fishing and now guiding them, I think it safe to assume I've no PETA connection. That said, I do try to treat all creatures humanely - within the natural cycle where all life is sustained by death. And I'd not have a dog that handled birds roughly. (As must surely be most wild and feral birds' "natural" end.) We hunters wish to eat our kills ourselves and certainly don't wish them mangled. And so it is that gun dogs have for hundreds of years been bred and trained to be "soft mouthed". And what big lofts those who don't cull must have! I see people post here of starting 20-50 youngbirds each season, and even as poor a mathematician as I can see where that would lead in a very few year's time. No way a poor boy like me could afford such largess, even if he were inclined to. So we shoot our extras for the dogs to work and then eat them - and find them excellent tablefare.

I'm getting the impression I've broached a subject no one wishes to discuss. Is everyone here in the habit of pensioning poor racers for the rest of their rather long natural lives or is something else done with them.

I'm not a racer, just an American lurker on this racing board who enjoys raising homers just to watch, as well as for gun dog training. And I'll admit that I shoot my culls for the dogs' training benefit - and our family table. At least in my part of the US, mine are quite acceptable practices, and a number of racers have given or sold me birds for those purposes. But I've seen UK gun dog owners lament the difficulty of obtaining homing pigeon stock and wonder whether there's some general prohibition among UK pigeon fanciers against supplying dog trainers with birds? And if so, what on earth do you do with all your culls?