I have a breeding pair that roll and have produced good rollers for me that dont roll too deep.Your not to far away from the truth as ive bought some rite crap that dont roll there all half bred. ive got 2 Ybs at the min im training and 2 in the nest.hoping these will be ok. The thing is id be happy with birds that just fly i just like to see my pigeons in the air but that dosent happen. Ive takken all the advice i read as much as i can still with no luck