Pigeonbasics Forum: deep distrust developing in birds sales - Pigeonbasics Forum

Jump to content

  • (5 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

deep distrust developing in birds sales Rate Topic: -----

#41 User is offline   timbarra 

  • Veteran of the Loft!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 695
  • Joined: 16-April 07

Posted 22 November 2007 - 23:05 PM

PIGEON_MAN said:

Perhaps people are at last beginning to realise that it,s false economy just to buy birds in for stock that are say brothers or sisters or sons or daughters of some champion or another and after buying these birds they realise that they are just not breeding anything any good.One seller on here seemed to be more concerned that his stock was one more generation down from the originals than someone else,s so offered the youngsters cheaper,my reply was what differance did it make if they were 10 generatoins from the originals so long as the birds are breeding winners,there was no responce so i guess the youngsters were being sold off birds that wern,t producing winners.Another seller on here just seems to give you loads of abuse when you ask questions about the birds being sold so thats another that I personally wont be buying off.I guess the thing is as many have said before is you pays your money and takes your chance,but i would allways tell anyone dont be swayed by fancy pedigrees or birds that have won multiple races because there is no more guarentee that those birds will breed you winners than birds that have done nothing.


I agree with the thread, selling pigeons on here has become at times stupid beyond the practicality of it,
I know you are refering to me PIGEON MAN when you say that some sellers give abuse, I get tired of irellevent questions about pigeons that are no longer for sale and irrellivent to the thread, I have done my best to explain things and even gave my nuber out so I can talk in person , and clear up any misunderstandings.

ALSO as for a certain person selling birds cheaper than myself because they are a generation further down the pedigree !!  I totally agree with you as I know the pigeons well and believe they will breed winners generation after generation, I personally think the gentleman should ask more, but they are affordable to the average joe at his prices , are they not?

Most pigeon people , not all, want something for nothing and when you consider that certain fancierrs put alot of time , effort, and their own money into pigeons , i find it insulting that if you offer a pigeon for £40 someone offers you a £10 privately !!! thats the sort of people, pigeon people are !! not all but believe me most .

A pigeon is not just a pigeon it is somebodys ideal and hard work.

anyway you can all feel free to call me whenever , I wont hide and am not affraid to answer questions, I will also add I cull heavily I cull with an iron hand and nothing that is considered rubbish will be resold, thats not how i opperate, an example, I had 4 direct pigeons from Heesters Bothers Ruesel, Holland , and when they arrived I culled them .  Why ? especially after I paid alot of money for them.. simple, they where rubbish !!

I would hope that people who wanted to buy from me would consider myself trustworthy, they can approach me any time.

regards spencer

#42 Guest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 24 November 2007 - 09:01 AM

Ian Gill said:

I didnt post that to get into a slanging match with you but when your "FACTS" include people having to go through a spanish inquisiton when selling pigeons for 25 or 30 quid ,well its not right ..what do you think your buying at that price ?? A National winner??

Just what are these facts you mention ??


I think the above post hits the nail on the head in all this. Pigeon racing has changed, it is now more about monay and pedigree and the haves and have nots. The haves at times tend to treat the have nots with contempt. £20 or £30 to someone young or with a young family or an old git like me whose life turned upside down is, money you want to spend wisely, if you are well to do like perhaps then it is not such an issue.
Ian my inclinations are socialist it is a prejudice that will never leave my veins, I say prejudice because I would never consider putting my X on the ballot sheet other than for Labour. I could not do it. In that respect when I see claims being made that cannot be substantiated, claims that the less experienced would not think twice about then I see it as my duty to try and protect them.
Who am I to protect them? Well society at the moment, is quite contradictory isn't it. When you here something dreadful on the news, the comment will be made where were the neighbours, how did people not speak up. Politicians have become great at spin and this is even becoming the case at grass roots, people are learning if they gang together and 'attack' together, those complaining will shut up, they will be afraid and that allows them to continue. You see that's my problem I don't shut up. I have worked professionally (and I mean worked not counselled) on a one to one basis with paedophiles, rapists, con men, GBH boys and murderers many of them tried to intimidate but failed.
Look at the birds I put for sale there were two that went for £20, the cock has bred winners, he bred me a good yearling this year, a yb to score this year and I only took two out of him this year and last (simply because Ihad over 30 pair of stock to breed from) but only one bid, in my estimation a bargain. But other birds with pedigrees as long as your arm going for 4 times that and unproven!! Why? Often because of 'spin'.
Spencer, I can appreciate you want this all to finish, well so do I, but I have to make a few comments. Firstly this was not a feud. I have only on one occasion been personal, that was when I said perhaps you werenít too bright, I am sorry for saying that it was out of order. In all my posts and this is pertinent to a comment you made Ian I did not slag any one off, you referred to a slanging match. I only asked for facts and on production of facts would apologise if I was wrong. Nothing has changed, my offer of apology was there.
Someone mentioned history; let me put the facts right on this. Spencer contacted me out of the blue a few years back, saying he had a lot of knowledge on the eye and would like to share that knowledge with mine. I told him I was comfortable with my own and did not wish to share, that was it! Then on here he made some comments on the eye and was very disrespectful to Jack Barkel which I did take him to task over. Thatís the history full stop.
Spencer yes Iím happy to bury the hatchet and never raise this issue again. Time I think to let the buyer do his homework and keep my nose out!
It has concerned me that this may damage the site; however they say all publicity is good publicity and it certainly has got people thinking!! But to the webmaster thank you for your tolerance and I hope it has not.


#43 User is offline   Ian Gill 

  • Squeaker
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 159
  • Joined: 28-December 06

Posted 24 November 2007 - 10:24 AM

Quote

I think the above post hits the nail on the head in all this. Pigeon racing has changed, it is now more about monay and pedigree and the haves and have nots. The haves at times tend to treat the have nots with contempt. £20 or £30 to someone young or with a young family or an old git like me whose life turned upside down is, money you want to spend wisely, if you are well to do like perhaps then it is not such an issue.


I dont quite get your point Albear ?? I have not treated anyone with contempt or would ever do so and anyone who knows me will tell you that.

Now you mention the fact of the pigeons you put for sale on this site..Well I too placed pigeons in the for sales at what I thought were a working mans price £30 each..these were young birds which were grandchildren of multiple winning birds or from pigeons that have bred multiple Fed winning pigeons that have cost me tens of thousands to aquire ..not paper pigeons but the genuine article.

Now you may or may not know that I run a pigeon website,one that has been one of the most popular on the internet for nearly 7 years and I have never placed my own birds for sale on my own site !! Why?? Because I didnt think it appropriate to do so...I did not want to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that I could have placed my birds in front of the thousands of fanciers using it...call me old fashioned or just plain stupid but thats the way I am(my friends think Im nuts)

I have spent hours and hours placing sales lists and details of other peoples auctions on my site and for no reward ..all free ..yet I had a small auction myself last Monday night and I didnt even place the details of my own auction on my site.

No one more than me Albear has the interests of the grassroots fancier at heart and I have spent every available minute of my time this last 8 years working to that end..so please dont try and tell me that I have shown contempt







www.pigeonportal.com

#44 User is offline   DOVEScot 

  • High Ranking
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Gold Member
  • Posts: 9,859
  • Joined: 23-September 06
  • LocationGlenrothes, Bonny Scotland

Posted 24 November 2007 - 10:49 AM

Ian Gill said:

I dont quite get your point Albear ?? I have not treated anyone with contempt or would ever do so and anyone who knows me will tell you that.

Now you mention the fact of the pigeons you put for sale on this site..Well I too placed pigeons in the for sales at what I thought were a working mans price £30 each..these were young birds which were grandchildren of multiple winning birds or from pigeons that have bred multiple Fed winning pigeons that have cost me tens of thousands to aquire ..not paper pigeons but the genuine article.

Now you may or may not know that I run a pigeon website,one that has been one of the most popular on the internet for nearly 7 years and I have never placed my own birds for sale on my own site !! Why?? Because I didnt think it appropriate to do so...I did not want to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that I could have placed my birds in front of the thousands of fanciers using it...call me old fashioned or just plain stupid but thats the way I am(my friends think Im nuts)

I have spent hours and hours placing sales lists and details of other peoples auctions on my site and for no reward ..all free ..yet I had a small auction myself last Monday night and I didnt even place the details of my own auction on my site.

No one more than me Albear has the interests of the grassroots fancier at heart and I have spent every available minute of my time this last 8 years working to that end..so please dont try and tell me that I have shown contempt



I didnt post that to get into a slanging match with you but when your "FACTS" include people having to go through a spanish inquisiton when selling pigeons for 25 or 30 quid ,well its not right ..what do you think your buying at that price ?? A National winner??

Ive been reading the threads on this forum since Richard started it and I cant believe some of the stuff posted on here regarding the selling of pigeons ..just because there was one bad apple doesnt mean that everyone selling pigeons should be tarred with the same brush and by the way you pays your money and takes your chance..as far as I can see that lad didnt hold a gun to anyones head to get money from them.Yet he still gets mentioned in every thread regarding the selling of pigeons.


Then why make the above statements and demean anyone for asking questions or buying a £25-£30 bird

Pigeon racing has become like any other part of life a status factor with some.
See that pigeon I paid a grand for that, next thing you know one has to pay more to have a better status in order to have a better pigeon
Same as football wages, housing, pedigree dogs, art work you name it people want to buy status or prestige :-/

As in my case no one put a gun to my head to buy 8 birds for £15 each, £120 + £40 Amtrak, so why should I moan and make such a fuss when I get ripped off, when someone can bin a zillion pound pigeon because it was not up to their standard.




Posted Image
DOVEScot Jnr's new business adventures

http://www.chickenshop.co.uk

http://www.doves-above.com/

#45 User is offline   Ian Gill 

  • Squeaker
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 159
  • Joined: 28-December 06

Posted 24 November 2007 - 11:04 AM

Dovescot,

I say again I didnt demean anyone for asking legitimate questions but when the questions get nasty and of a personal nature then whats that all about??

Just exactly what is your point Dovescot?? Spit it out man and say what you mean..






www.pigeonportal.com

#46 User is offline   DOVEScot 

  • High Ranking
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Gold Member
  • Posts: 9,859
  • Joined: 23-September 06
  • LocationGlenrothes, Bonny Scotland

Posted 24 November 2007 - 11:06 AM

Ian Gill said:

Dovescot,

I say again I didnt demean anyone for asking legitimate questions but when the questions get nasty and of a personal nature then whats that all about??

Just exactly what is your point Dovescot?? Spit it out man and say what you mean..


I think I have, anything specific you have in mind? Happy to answer  :-/
A spade is a spade, no use calling it a shovel :)

Posted Image
DOVEScot Jnr's new business adventures

http://www.chickenshop.co.uk

http://www.doves-above.com/

#47 User is offline   Ian Gill 

  • Squeaker
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 159
  • Joined: 28-December 06

Posted 24 November 2007 - 11:20 AM

DOVEScot said:

Then why make the above statements and demean anyone for asking questions or buying a £25-£30 bird

Pigeon racing has become like any other part of life a status factor with some.
See that pigeon I paid a grand for that, next thing you know one has to pay more to have a better status in order to have a better pigeon
Same as football wages, housing, pedigree dogs, art work you name it people want to buy status or prestige :-/

As in my case no one put a gun to my head to buy 8 birds for £15 each, £120 + £40 Amtrak, so why should I moan and make such a fuss when I get ripped off, when someone can bin a zillion pound pigeon because it was not up to their standard.



Are you saying that I buy pigeons for the status or prestige??

www.pigeonportal.com

#48 Guest_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 24 November 2007 - 11:26 AM

Ian sorry I was not trying to have a go at you, I was trying to make a genuine point.

#49 User is offline   DOVEScot 

  • High Ranking
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Gold Member
  • Posts: 9,859
  • Joined: 23-September 06
  • LocationGlenrothes, Bonny Scotland

Posted 24 November 2007 - 12:50 PM

Ian Gill said:

Are you saying that I buy pigeons for the status or prestige??

I didnt post that to get into a slanging match with you but when your "FACTS" include people having to go through a spanish inquisiton when selling pigeons for 25 or 30 quid ,well its not right ..what do you think your buying at that price ?? A National winner??


You are part of the status and prestige factor, in the fact you pay and command the high prices. Also as you stated you think that a £30 pigeon cannot be a national winner. Why becuase it never cost enough or someone hasn't the ability to turn it into one?

Posted Image
DOVEScot Jnr's new business adventures

http://www.chickenshop.co.uk

http://www.doves-above.com/

#50 User is offline   gangster 

  • High Ranking
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 6,871
  • Joined: 2-September 06

Posted 24 November 2007 - 12:52 PM

   sorry guys weres this all leading to beg to differ n call it a day??
ni bhrisfidh said me mar ta an fonn saoirse, agus saoirse mhuintir na heireann i mo chroi tiochfaid ;a eigin nuair a bheidh an fonn saoirse seo le taispeaint ag daoine go leir heireann ansin t...

#51 User is offline   DOVEScot 

  • High Ranking
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Gold Member
  • Posts: 9,859
  • Joined: 23-September 06
  • LocationGlenrothes, Bonny Scotland

Posted 24 November 2007 - 13:27 PM

gangster said:

   sorry guys weres this all leading to beg to differ n call it a day??


Just stating my views like anyone else on the site. Willing to debate them that's all. I thought that is what a forum is all about :-/
Posted Image
DOVEScot Jnr's new business adventures

http://www.chickenshop.co.uk

http://www.doves-above.com/

#52 Guestkarl adams_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 24 November 2007 - 14:07 PM

i would not guarentee  any  bird if it cost £10 or £1000  it dont matter if its a street bird or from the best in the world   i see the sport as two competiters                          
                      1 the bird   2 the owner
so if you are a top flyer and have good birds and sell 2 out of your best and they do no good y is it that them birds get knocked and not the owner

#53 User is offline   EAGLEOWL 

  • Old Bird
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 484
  • Joined: 12-September 07

Posted 24 November 2007 - 15:20 PM

the bird tells you nothing ,only the man racing or owning the bird can tell you this,people selling birds can only tell you there good birds has no one sells crap.people have the right to ask questions when parting with their monies for anything be it a £1.00 or a thousand .

i have asked someone on here about a couple of things which i knew to be wrong when he placed replys to questions .i have no problem with this man selling pigeons be it for a pound or thousands ,or anyone selling pigeons yes i think sometimes where do they get there prices from for a bird ,but if you pay for instance 10.000 for a bird are you going to sell birds for 25.00 from it .i think the price would be higher to help recoup monies paid for bird nothing wrong with that .theres people who dont race but just sell fashion pigeons just for a money making idea you just have to look around the weekly papers of birds for sale ,thousands sold off birds that have never been out never mind seen a basket but people buy what they can afford .

if someone sells you a pigeon for 25.00 or a thousand and its rubbish is he bothered ,you will blame the fancier and he will blame you

#54 User is offline   Ian Gill 

  • Squeaker
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 159
  • Joined: 28-December 06

Posted 24 November 2007 - 17:43 PM

DOVEScot said:

You are part of the status and prestige factor, in the fact you pay and command the high prices. Also as you stated you think that a £30 pigeon cannot be a national winner. Why becuase it never cost enough or someone hasn't the ability to turn it into one?


You have a great ability to read anything into a post that you want Dovescot.I stated that you were not buying a National winner for that price,not that a £30 pigeon couldnt win a National.I think if you recall the pigeon that won the Europa Classic last year was a £22.50 bird from the Natural Breeding Station beating all the latest designer pigeons in doing so.

I dont think you know me well enough to judge me on who I am or what I buy....





www.pigeonportal.com

#55 User is offline   Ronnie 

  • Veteran of the Loft!
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1,000
  • Joined: 3-August 06

Posted 24 November 2007 - 18:08 PM

Seems a strange topic this.
If you want to buy a pigeon buy it who cares what other people think.Any item is worth whatever you are willing to pay and sod everone else's view be it a car a bike a tv or a pigeon.
As a buyer you are entitled to be inquisitive and if a seller refuses to answer questions to your liking then dont buy the item.
It's my belief when you buy a pigeon for stock you are buying a gene pool not a guaranteed golden egg layer just another piece to the ultimate picture that you are allways trying to make better.If you cant afford a champion pigeon for stock then you opt to buy a generation away or you wait until something else you want come's along.At the end of the day its all about choice and if you are not happy with anything in the sale then choose not to buy and leave it at that.
No need for bickering and name calling there is also no need to air dirty washing in public this forum has a pm service like most forums .Most sellers put there phone number on sales as well so get in touch privately if you are genuinely interested in the bird.If after talking to the seller you choose not to buy then good luck in your search.No need to get all shirty and start a public slanging match.
If you get ripped of by a seller like poor Dovescot did then let the forum know all the details so they can beware.
Remember you the buyer allways have the choice if for any reason your not happy then dont buy.

#56 GuestTAMMY_1_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 24 November 2007 - 18:10 PM

Ronnie said:

Seems a strange topic this.
If you want to buy a pigeon buy it who cares what other people think.Any item is worth whatever you are willing to pay and sod everone else's view be it a car a bike a tv or a pigeon.
As a buyer you are entitled to be inquisitive and if a seller refuses to answer questions to your liking then dont buy the item.
It's my belief when you buy a pigeon for stock you are buying a gene pool not a guaranteed golden egg layer just another piece to the ultimate picture that you are allways trying to make better.If you cant afford a champion pigeon for stock then you opt to buy a generation away or you wait until something else you want come's along.At the end of the day its all about choice and if you are not happy with anything in the sale then choose not to buy and leave it at that.
No need for bickering and name calling there is also no need to air dirty washing in public this forum has a pm service like most forums .Most sellers put there phone number on sales as well so get in touch privately if you are genuinely interested in the bird.If after talking to the seller you choose not to buy then good luck in your search.No need to get all shirty and start a public slanging match.
If you get ripped of by a seller like poor Dovescot did then let the forum know all the details so they can beware.
Remember you the buyer allways have the choice if for any reason your not happy then dont buy.


spot on

#57 User is offline   homebird 

  • Squeaker
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 125
  • Joined: 13-July 07

Posted 24 November 2007 - 18:19 PM

TAMMY_1 said:

spot on


spot on

#58 User is offline   DOVEScot 

  • High Ranking
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Group: Gold Member
  • Posts: 9,859
  • Joined: 23-September 06
  • LocationGlenrothes, Bonny Scotland

Posted 24 November 2007 - 18:27 PM

Ian Gill said:

You have a great ability to read anything into a post that you want Dovescot.I stated that you were not buying a National winner for that price,not that a £30 pigeon couldnt win a National.I think if you recall the pigeon that won the Europa Classic last year was a £22.50 bird from the Natural Breeding Station beating all the latest designer pigeons in doing so.

I dont think you know me well enough to judge me on who I am or what I buy....


You are right I do not know you, but on the forum I have a right the same as anyone to question posts. That is where judgement comes from on any forum. Good, bad or indifferent.
If I speak generally at times I am not tarring all with the same brush and if I want to "tar" someone then I will mention their name Ian
The origonal post "Deep distrust developing on bird sales" I think scares some people on the sites, because if the sites decide to ban the sales then it could hurt a lot of pockets. On the other hand it would stop people getting ripped off on the sites and save some of us that experience.
You Ian also have the great ability to pick out what you want and highlight it,
Good things about forums is it is put on posts for every one to see and make there own judgements, human nature will decide what side of the fence their judgement falls on, or they will sit on the fence

But statements like this I wish to comment on

Ive been reading the threads on this forum since Richard started it and I cant believe some of the stuff posted on here regarding the selling of pigeons ..just because there was one bad apple doesnt mean that everyone selling pigeons should be tarred with the same brush and by the way you pays your money and takes your chance..as far as I can see that lad didnt hold a gun to anyones head to get money from them.Yet he still gets mentioned in every thread regarding the selling of pigeons.

I didnt post that to get into a slanging match with you but when your "FACTS" include people having to go through a spanish inquisiton when selling pigeons for 25 or 30 quid ,well its not right ..what do you think your buying at that price ?? A National winner??

Just what are these facts you mention ??

Dovescot,

Having concerns is one thing and you are to be commended for thinking of the other members of this site but concerns arnt proof or fact ..simple as !!


Sorry if you do not like my answers but they are mine, no witch hunt intended, no hidden agenda, no offence intended, just my point of view, open to the forum's judgement :-/



Posted Image
DOVEScot Jnr's new business adventures

http://www.chickenshop.co.uk

http://www.doves-above.com/

#59 Guestj.bamling_*

  • Group: Guests

Posted 24 November 2007 - 18:41 PM

EAGLEOWL said:

the bird tells you nothing ,only the man racing or owning the bird can tell you this,people selling birds can only tell you there good birds has no one sells crap.people have the right to ask questions when parting with their monies for anything be it a £1.00 or a thousand .

i have asked someone on here about a couple of things which i knew to be wrong when he placed replys to questions .i have no problem with this man selling pigeons be it for a pound or thousands ,or anyone selling pigeons yes i think sometimes where do they get there prices from for a bird ,but if you pay for instance 10.000 for a bird are you going to sell birds for 25.00 from it .i think the price would be higher to help recoup monies paid for bird nothing wrong with that .theres people who dont race but just sell fashion pigeons just for a money making idea you just have to look around the weekly papers of birds for sale ,thousands sold off birds that have never been out never mind seen a basket but people buy what they can afford .

if someone sells you a pigeon for 25.00 or a thousand and its rubbish is he bothered ,you will blame the fancier and he will blame you


GOOD POST !!!

#60 User is offline   Ian Gill 

  • Squeaker
  • PipPipPipPip
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 159
  • Joined: 28-December 06

Posted 24 November 2007 - 18:42 PM

Tell you what Dovescot ..how many pigeons did you get took on with ?? 8 wasnt it ?? Well I will send you 8 ybs to race next year to replace the ones you didnt get and they will be from my best ..thats if you want them.

The reason I am doing that is that it might help to stop all this negativity that has developed on this site lately and one thing I know is that this forum doesnt deserve this type of crap going on all the time and most importantly Richard doesnt ..

www.pigeonportal.com

  • (5 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic


  • Advert: B.Leefe & Sons
  • Advert: Apex Garden Buildings
  • Advert: Racing Pigeon Supplies
  • Advert: Solway Feeders