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#21 User is offline   Novice 

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Posted 1 February 2016 - 21:47 PM

For anyone interested if you google Windy Ridge, Longborough you will see the home of CJ Williams.
I have a friend in the area ( Vic Compton ) who once did a write up on CJ during Peter's time there.
I have no idea of the article content but I do know that he did one.
Actually after I mentioned it to him tonight he is now looking for the original article. I didn't mean him to go to that bother.

#22 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 1 February 2016 - 22:08 PM

View Postdal2, on 1 February 2016 - 21:29 PM, said:

How are you retarding the wing moult?

With old birds I have never had them past the third flight due to pairing up in March going to the last National and with young birds if the weather is the same as last year when it was dark at 9pm I would switch the lights on until 10.30pm. Stevie If I am setting a cock up for the Gold Cup as I did last year he would be racing to his first youngster of the year. Unfortunately this did not suit him in 2015 as he was 10th Open Liecester 250 miles three weeks prior and perhaps put to much effort in so that may have put him off. In 2014 when I sent him he was feeding his first youngster and clocked him to be First Midland Fed at 16.45 second day.

#23 User is online   dal2 

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Posted 1 February 2016 - 22:14 PM

View Postpeter pandy, on 1 February 2016 - 21:08 PM, said:

With old birds I have never had them past the third flight due to pairing up in March going to the last National and with young birds if the weather is the same as last year when it was dark at 9pm I would switch the lights on until 10.30pm. Stevie If I am setting a cock up for the Gold Cup as I did last year he would be racing to his first youngster of the year. Unfortunately this did not suit him in 2015 as he was 10th Open Liecester 250 miles three weeks prior and perhaps put to much effort in so that may have put him off. In 2014 when I sent him he was feeding his first youngster and clocked him to be First Midland Fed at 16.45 second day.

Very good Peter. Here's a thing, if you were only interested in national distance racing would it not be easier to keep the birds celibate until pairing for yer chosen nest condition 2/3 weeks prior? No problem with wing moult or hens laying ?

#24 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 1 February 2016 - 22:22 PM

View Postdal2, on 1 February 2016 - 22:14 PM, said:

Very good Peter. Here's a thing, if you were only interested in national distance racing would it not be easier to keep the birds celibate until pairing for yer chosen nest condition 2/3 weeks prior? No problem with wing moult or hens laying ?


Tried that Stevie and is it not the same as Roundabout or pure Widowhood ? Like me the birds did'nt like it either.

#25 User is online   dal2 

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Posted 1 February 2016 - 22:25 PM

View Postpeter pandy, on 1 February 2016 - 21:22 PM, said:

Tried that Stevie and is it not the same as Roundabout or pure Widowhood ? Like me the birds did'nt like it either.

Ye we didny like it either cos we were last lol. It would be the easiest way if results urnae yer thing until distance races. The only problem would be that you would have no barometer for form.

#26 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 1 February 2016 - 22:38 PM

View PostNovice, on 1 February 2016 - 21:47 PM, said:

For anyone interested if you google Windy Ridge, Longborough you will see the home of CJ Williams.
I have a friend in the area ( Vic Compton ) who once did a write up on CJ during Peter's time there.
I have no idea of the article content but I do know that he did one.
Actually after I mentioned it to him tonight he is now looking for the original article. I didn't mean him to go to that bother.

I know their was a write up in the Pictorial with Antony Bolton and Jack Adams which was before my time but I dont recollect Vic Compton but if he did and has a date I can look him up in my Diaries, Now thinking back, their was a Vic ???? in one of the clubs called Carterton would that be the same chappie if so he gave a write up before my time and if so please give him my regards... I am sure John Large did one too.

#27 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 1 February 2016 - 22:41 PM

View Postdal2, on 1 February 2016 - 22:25 PM, said:

Ye we didny like it either cos we were last lol. It would be the easiest way if results urnae yer thing until distance races. The only problem would be that you would have no barometer for form.

Absolutely top of the class Stevie which is why I am going back to NATURAL. :emoticon-0136-giggle: :emoticon-0136-giggle:

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Posted 2 February 2016 - 09:59 AM

Vic was a Police Officer who lives in Witney. I believe he lived next door to Clive Merrles. Characters he still refers to are Ray who is on the RPRA committee and Roy Ag. Vic wrote a regular article called Country Scene which, I think was published in Pigeon Sport. It was a sort of John Harwood article which included pigeons but also general interest items. He seems to have looked out the original article and is speaking about the original pigeons from 1941 onwards, trips to Belgium and various other topics. Yes I will pass on your best wishes.

#29 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 2 February 2016 - 12:10 PM

View PostNovice, on 2 February 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

Vic was a Police Officer who lives in Witney. I believe he lived next door to Clive Merrles. Characters he still refers to are Ray who is on the RPRA committee and Roy Ag. Vic wrote a regular article called Country Scene which, I think was published in Pigeon Sport. It was a sort of John Harwood article which included pigeons but also general interest items. He seems to have looked out the original article and is speaking about the original pigeons from 1941 onwards, trips to Belgium and various other topics. Yes I will pass on your best wishes.

Aye thats the chappie that flew in Carterton. We did not speak often but I can always recall his words to me which were. ""It was about time CJ had a no nonsense Scotsman in there to do the business."" And I am sure he would agree that I did. :scotland: :scotland:

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Posted 2 February 2016 - 14:53 PM

View Postpeter pandy, on 2 February 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

Aye thats the chappie that flew in Carterton. We did not speak often but I can always recall his words to me which were. ""It was about time CJ had a no nonsense Scotsman in there to do the business."" And I am sure he would agree that I did. :scotland: :scotland:

That sounds like him!

#31 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 2 February 2016 - 19:51 PM

I read lately in one of the papers that the chap who runs the RPRA one loft race swears by Aubiose Hemp horse bedding and as one will recall in an earlier post I was convinced Easy Bed killed my lawn which I am sure I was right as a small stock loft I had with E/B has no grass where I walk now. Anyway I have 2 bales of Aubiose down where my hens are and it appears to have better absorbtion under the perches so have ordered another 6 bales for the race loft.

They say you are never to old to learn something new and I found an interesting read about Alkalinity encouraging trouble in the crop and intestines with cocci, canker and worms so I have started a programme of adding 25ml of Cider vinegar with Garlic to 5 ltr water Daily and will send away samples for testing prior to pairing.

Going up to Hummingbird the morra for feeding and a browse for anything new. Wee Tiger brought me 4 bags of Scotch beans and they dont look too bad so thats the rearing feed sorted !. Can anybody tell me why all the Breeding mixes have Maize when its the last thing a feeder will pick up.??

#32 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 2 February 2016 - 20:30 PM

Had a wee problem with the last post as their was some script problem and would hardly let me type !.

Something I feel that any novice reading this should try in fact dont try BUT make sure !!. The most important thing in being a success is consistency.. Now that comes in many forms and to me you have to have a daily programme where everything you do at the loft must be at the same time daily. For instance, Every day my birds went out at 9.00am and brought back in at 11.00am and given a 1/4 feed The change over of brooding takes place at this time in Central Scotland. Any bird that does not come in is locked out. At 13.00hrs a handfull of small seed such as Red Band suffices with the door slightly open to allow in any that did not enter earlier. 17.00 doors are opened and Hens are out for a fly and should be back back in at 19.00hrs for the change over and Cocks can go out untill 20.00 hrs then all in for the main feed and loft locked up at 21.00hrs.

The reasoning in not having them out in the afternoon is that if you are observant the wild birds dont fly in the heat of the day and neither will pigeons in fact it is when the sky is at its emptiest. This is the most consistantly important thing you have to do. You will know you have it right because the birds will start roaring as the time approaches for you to make an appearance in their body clock.

The above times suited me but perhaps not you so make the attempt to formalise daily times that you can keep in your daily schedule. It will pay handsome dividends off that I can guarantee.

#33 User is offline   philg50 

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Posted 3 February 2016 - 09:17 AM

Under this suggested regime when does youngsters get out Peter.

#34 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 3 February 2016 - 22:53 PM

View Postphilg50, on 3 February 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

Under this suggested regime when does youngsters get out Peter.


I had a colony of pigeons with young and old all to-gether which to me was pure natural. Never had a youngster scalped nor go hungry as an old bird would always want to feed them and when I saw that happening that was my pool bird that week which very rarely failed me.

#35 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 3 February 2016 - 23:50 PM

I notice Wiley has started a new topic which I admit to enjoying the many replies but I shall not interfere with responding to his post and will continue in the vein of my experiences and moving on to ventilation. My old lofts in the Sixties and early Seventies were your typical dowel fronts for ventilation. It was in this period when I became friendly with Eddy Newcombe and became a regular visitor to Macmerry. His loft was basically enclosed with glass windows and no noticable Ventilation which started a conversation along the lines of. If you have air coming in then you cannot build heat up inside as it would have to escape defeating the purpose as your loft would be the same temperature as outside and you want it to be warmer. At that time I thought the Barley straw on the floor created the heat. "silly me". I went home that day and as my brother was a carpenter we built a 40 X 10ft "L" shaped loft with 4ft square window, 3ft square window and glass door all painted white inside and Barley straw on the floor with 4 chimneys on the roof. The heat was marvellous regardless of outside conditions and performances with the same birds was astronomicaly improved. Our loft was in all probability the first in the Fed area to become enclosed.

#36 User is offline   andy Burgess 

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Posted 4 February 2016 - 09:11 AM

View Postpeter pandy, on 3 February 2016 - 23:50 PM, said:

I notice Wiley has started a new topic which I admit to enjoying the many replies but I shall not interfere with responding to his post and will continue in the vein of my experiences and moving on to ventilation. My old lofts in the Sixties and early Seventies were your typical dowel fronts for ventilation. It was in this period when I became friendly with Eddy Newcombe and became a regular visitor to Macmerry. His loft was basically enclosed with glass windows and no noticable Ventilation which started a conversation along the lines of. If you have air coming in then you cannot build heat up inside as it would have to escape defeating the purpose as your loft would be the same temperature as outside and you want it to be warmer. At that time I thought the Barley straw on the floor created the heat. "silly me". I went home that day and as my brother was a carpenter we built a 40 X 10ft "L" shaped loft with 4ft square window, 3ft square window and glass door all painted white inside and Barley straw on the floor with 4 chimneys on the roof. The heat was marvellous regardless of outside conditions and performances with the same birds was astronomicaly improved. Our loft was in all probability the first in the Fed area to become enclosed.


great information Peter , thank you. can i ask what your racing loft is like today , compared to when you flew with your Brother ? apart from heating panels now , are there many other changes or ??
"north wales novice" no longer .

#37 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 4 February 2016 - 21:23 PM

View Postandy Burgess, on 4 February 2016 - 09:11 AM, said:

great information Peter , thank you. can i ask what your racing loft is like today , compared to when you flew with your Brother ? apart from heating panels now , are there many other changes or ??


My present race loft Andy was made to my measurements and is 20 X 8ft, the back is 7ft sloping to the front at 6 1/2ft . It has a veranda the full length apart from my door and twin polycarbonate windows which are hinged and can be dropped when I feel the need which is when the outside temp is 30c. The roof is corrugated tin sheeting and creates heat which is a must and ventilation is virtually non existent when closed up. It is roughly 2ft off the ground and faces South West. Apart from a heating panel in each section there are also Ioniser fans working through the breeding and racing season and switched off at night. When I erected this loft I put down 6 bales of straw but as we all know farming practices have changed where before straw was at least 2ft in length now its 6ins and breaks up to easily, Tried a season with Easy Bed and did not like the smell [dont think the birds did either] and this year will give Aubiose a try for the season. I have been to many lofts where the inmates have been successful and unsuccessful noticing that if the lofts not comfortable for you then it aint for the birds and these are the unsuccessful lofts.

#38 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 4 February 2016 - 22:28 PM

Well for all the many years I have been involved in the Doo game I was shocked to read in The Racing Pigeon an article to-day by Dr Philip Quinn on pages 54-56 regarding Pigeon Diet,Nutrition and Digestion telling us that we are poisoning our birds by feeding them Beans Maize etc etc. It would appear that they are lacking Nutrient Balance, Cyanide releasing Glucosides, Enzyme Inhibitors, Mineral Absorption Inhibitors, Lectins, Gluton and Mycotoxins.. Some of the deficiences, Threonine, Tryptophan, Trichothecenes are some of the essential Amino Acids which we are not supplying them with and Tannins from Beans Peas etc are poison I could go on but shut the paper and had Mary make me a cuppa.
A while later I thought I remembered something about a chappie who contracted YBS every year had a health shop and was flogging amongst other things crap medication, the cure for YBS.
Into the Web and there he is BLUE SKY PIGEON. flogging Nutritional Products, Health Products, Racing Performance Products. Aye he is a clever C#NT..

#39 User is offline   peter pandy 

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Posted 5 February 2016 - 22:41 PM

I left school in 1961 and started work on a dairy farm. In those days there were no combine harvesters and I had to scythe a path round a 5 acre field of wheat to allow a tractor to drive round with a cutting and binding machine. What I cut I had to gather into sheafs tie and stack manually. All the household pitched in and following the tractor all the sheafs were stooked in bunches of 6 to dry off. A couple of sunny days later all the sheafs were made into a large stack 9ft high with all the grain situated into the centre. It was a couple of months later when we broke into the stack and carted the sheafs down to the mill to be threshed. No driers in those days and it was the same with the local Carse bean which was grown for horse feed and by god the birds had problems at times getting them down their throats. It was only when reminiscing lately that I rememebered a conversation with the Bean farmer in November why he had not threshed any Beans that he had replied The Beans are poisonous untill they have dried and been frosted so come back in January. He died in the Seventies and that was the end of the Carse Bean in Scotland.
Norval the farmer in Clackmannan grew the best beans in the U.K. and was contracted by Heinz to supply them for their tins. Heinz sent their Agriculturists for soil samples yearly and after analysing he would be told what to fertilise with and how much to the acre. Tons of Beans were ordered by all the top fanciers in Central Scotland and I really mean THE TOP FANCIERS in the Sixties, Seventies and Eighties. As the oldies passed away so did the quality fanciers and the new generation started getting the foreign rubbish which looks and IS meant to look Visually wonderful, However a mate who could fly a good pigeon and I, experimented in differant ways to ascertain if it was as good in performance or was it all cosmetic and we found the top of the range widowhood mixture was only good for flying 3 hours with the birds returning like darts with no body and if they were not all home within 4 hours then we were unlikely to see them again. Virtually all those feeds have no substance whatsoever.

#40 User is offline   andy Burgess 

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Posted 5 February 2016 - 22:56 PM

View Postpeter pandy, on 5 February 2016 - 22:41 PM, said:

I left school in 1961 and started work on a dairy farm. In those days there were no combine harvesters and I had to scythe a path round a 5 acre field of wheat to allow a tractor to drive round with a cutting and binding machine. What I cut I had to gather into sheafs tie and stack manually. All the household pitched in and following the tractor all the sheafs were stooked in bunches of 6 to dry off. A couple of sunny days later all the sheafs were made into a large stack 9ft high with all the grain situated into the centre. It was a couple of months later when we broke into the stack and carted the sheafs down to the mill to be threshed. No driers in those days and it was the same with the local Carse bean which was grown for horse feed and by god the birds had problems at times getting them down their throats. It was only when reminiscing lately that I rememebered a conversation with the Bean farmer in November why he had not threshed any Beans that he had replied The Beans are poisonous untill they have dried and been frosted so come back in January. He died in the Seventies and that was the end of the Carse Bean in Scotland.
Norval the farmer in Clackmannan grew the best beans in the U.K. and was contracted by Heinz to supply them for their tins. Heinz sent their Agriculturists for soil samples yearly and after analysing he would be told what to fertilise with and how much to the acre. Tons of Beans were ordered by all the top fanciers in Central Scotland and I really mean THE TOP FANCIERS in the Sixties, Seventies and Eighties. As the oldies passed away so did the quality fanciers and the new generation started getting the foreign rubbish which looks and IS meant to look Visually wonderful, However a mate who could fly a good pigeon and I, experimented in differant ways to ascertain if it was as good in performance or was it all cosmetic and we found the top of the range widowhood mixture was only good for flying 3 hours with the birds returning like darts with no body and if they were not all home within 4 hours then we were unlikely to see them again. Virtually all those feeds have no substance whatsoever.


another great post Peter , i had a similar start on a dairy farm , yet a little later on . did work with hand tools 1 week when the baler broke, and it "broke" most of us . 16 hour days , 7 days a week , phew and all for £9. a week :emoticon-0127-lipssealed:
theres a paragraph worthy of reading a few times over about "today,s feeding" . tell us about the testing method for a good bean please :emoticon-0138-thinking:
"north wales novice" no longer .

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