Gutted

[just ask me]

i do the same as you john as there is less of a chance of contaminating a bottle of vaccine jmo as regards keeping one needle in the bottle

 

rumours have it that Colombovac is going to stop making the pigeon vaccine as they are not making enough money from it not enough sales i heard

[JohnQuinn]

i do the same as you john as there is less of a chance of contaminating a bottle of vaccine jmo as regards keeping one needle in the bottle

 

rumours have it that Colombovac is going to stop making the pigeon vaccine as they are not making enough money from it not enough sales i heard

 

It would be interesting to know what the best selling vaccine was Europe wide JAM. Nobilis is cheaper to buy and is oil based, so i imagine their's is more expensive to produce than Colombovac's water based Vaccine, that's my logic anyway but no hard evidence as to the production costs or Europe/World wide sales of either of them. I often wonder what the poultry farmers use for this.

[walterboswell59]

Am no wan for contradicting ye Watty, but the Manufacturers are the ones with most to gain!! Hence their instructions, that Can and Do, put uncertainty into fanciers heads !!

The medical reps who go to your Doctor/ Vet/Hospitals are well versed in selling their products in a fashion that generates most income for the Manufacturer they are employed by, if they don't they're soon out of work. Its the very same in all producers practices, whether it be Meds or fruit and Veg. Ambiguous descriptive selling pitches are their forte.

The government even knows it's going on and choose not to pull the reigns in, because they also benefit from every sale made, via taxes and generous funding donations from these same manufacturers.

im no saying anymore on this subject there is a big problem here and people are not admitting or refusing to see it so as far as i am concerned people are making this up as they go along as it does not matter what it is if you dont follow a manufacturers instructions your garntee is out the window so il do my way because i know its right then if i have a problem ive got a case imo

[JohnQuinn]

I will also say my last on this subject Watty, the manufacturers instructions say we should vaccinate our Yb's at between 20 and 22 days old due to the Yb's immune system's development. I do mine at that age and have never Ever had pmv in my team when using it this way. Yet as is the case in Every loft, not All of my Yb's are weaned at the same time so i am continually introducing Yb's into the team who have been vaccinated less than a week earlier in the nest, this is not detrimental to the ones who have been vaccinated up to 8 weeks earlier.

I will add that those fanciers who choose Not to vaccinate EVER, and there are PLENTY of them, should be sweating for the next six weeks because as the birds approach the end of the moult they are more open to contracting diseases of all sorts including PMV. How do i know this? Well in 2001 i was steadily falling into mental ill health and did not vaccinate my Yb's that year, on the 1st of November i had 30 cracking Yb's in my loft just waiting to go to the shows, by the 30th i had ONE left, every other Yb took PMV when on their last or second last flight. These are my personal observations and like yourself i am content with how i use the vaccine because i have no issues with the disease in my lofts and long may that continue for both of us. atvb mate.

[just ask me]

It would be interesting to know what the best selling vaccine was Europe wide JAM. Nobilis is cheaper to buy and is oil based, so i imagine their's is more expensive to produce than Colombovac's water based Vaccine, that's my logic anyway but no hard evidence as to the production costs or Europe/World wide sales of either of them. I often wonder what the poultry farmers use for this.

 

 

ill try find out what poultry farmers use

 

on sales i cant be sure but i do know that many in europe cant get there hands on Colombovac which for a lot is there there first choice we seem to find it easier to get it here

 

in Belgium and i believe Holland also the vet does all vaccinations so i would think its what the vet can get his hands on

 

on my phone here hate typing on it also think ive missed some pms will get to them some time tomorrow

[Guest IB]

They say every day is a learning day. Just read about the correct method of leaving the needle in the bottle, thanks Guys. Had wondered how to use 2 needles without contamination during non-use and how to stop vaccine leaking from the syringe during the changeover. Understand now. Have been using a gun for years up till this year when it packed in; so back to syringe for this year and its a right pain. Missed the gun and will buy a replacement when I get my vaccine this month. IMO a lot easier to use.

[Guest IB]

I said I would take advice and contacted Dr Phil Lynch. Here's his reply:-

 

Human vaccines are usually made up in slngle doses with a clear expiry date which is vital. All vacines deteriorate over time - this is slowed down by vacuum sealing and ensuring they are kept at low temps. in the standard fridge (not the freezer ). It also enables them to be sent by post for arrival within a number of days when they should be put straight into the fridge and hence remain viable for use up to the expiry date. A multi dose bottle of vaccine is less resiliant because when the rubber seal cap is pierced the vacuum in the bottle is breached and sucks in air which oxygenates and hence enhances the activation and also the deterioration of the vaccine. The working practice with human vaccine was that if the cap hadbeen pierced and it was out of the fridge for more than 2 hours then it was dubious regarding its efficacy and hence its effectiveness. Ipresume the same ap plies to animal vaccines.

I n the case of PMV the fancier is encouraged to pierce the rubber cap with one needle only and leave it in so that further samples can be taken during the vaccination process of many pigeons. This is to avoid many pierces of the cap and also cross contamination from the needles used to jag many pigeonsThe expiry date of the vaccine is still very important and relevant in animals as regards effective vaccination and in my opinion the re use of a pmv bottle of vaccine which has been out of the fridge for more than 2 hours with a pierced cap due to a feeder needle or multiple needles is doubtful regarding effectiveness.

hope this helps regards Phil

[walterboswell59]

I said I would take advice and contacted Dr Phil Lynch. Here's his reply:-

 

Human vaccines are usually made up in slngle doses with a clear expiry date which is vital. All vacines deteriorate over time - this is slowed down by vacuum sealing and ensuring they are kept at low temps. in the standard fridge (not the freezer ). It also enables them to be sent by post for arrival within a number of days when they should be put straight into the fridge and hence remain viable for use up to the expiry date. A multi dose bottle of vaccine is less resiliant because when the rubber seal cap is pierced the vacuum in the bottle is breached and sucks in air which oxygenates and hence enhances the activation and also the deterioration of the vaccine. The working practice with human vaccine was that if the cap hadbeen pierced and it was out of the fridge for more than 2 hours then it was dubious regarding its efficacy and hence its effectiveness. Ipresume the same ap plies to animal vaccines.

I n the case of PMV the fancier is encouraged to pierce the rubber cap with one needle only and leave it in so that further samples can be taken during the vaccination process of many pigeons. This is to avoid many pierces of the cap and also cross contamination from the needles used to jag many pigeonsThe expiry date of the vaccine is still very important and relevant in animals as regards effective vaccination and in my opinion the re use of a pmv bottle of vaccine which has been out of the fridge for more than 2 hours with a pierced cap due to a feeder needle or multiple needles is doubtful regarding effectiveness.

hope this helps regards Phil

thanks phil i rest my case but what does he know he is only a doctor they will still not believe it

[billt]

thanks phil i rest my case but what does he know he is only a doctor they will still not believe it

 

I'm with you on that one Walter, We''ll be vaccinating forever if people keep up their slack vaccination programme

[Guest chad3646]

so was dr shipman

 

[JohnQuinn]

so was dr shipman

 

 

[JohnQuinn]

should have explained better to johns post and i may be wrong because i dont pretend i fully understand myself whats going on with the vaccine situ but i tried the same thing when i jagged with a bottle that had been opened and kept in the fridge for 3 weeks then used it the birds were ok no reaction but when i jagged with a new unopened bottle the birds react to it this leeds me to think that the air had made the opened bottle inactive and thats why they dont react to it in any way because its not kick starting the parramixo antibodies in the birds allso there is no cross contamintion when your birds are not mixing with other peoples birds and the vaccine manufacturers are telling us it must be used when opened like i said i dont fully understand what is going on with the vaccine but i will keep trying different things till i learn more about it and i will get to the bottom of it

 

This is your own post Watty, but it seems you have learned all that is needed to be known about vaccination since posting that in fact you don't or are not sure about it.

IMO Unless you are qualified PERSONALLY on the nature of the break down of Vaccines then you really aught NOT to be giving advice on it. The post above is Suggesting i am using my Vaccine wrongly, however i don't have a problem with PMV in my lofts so on the Evidence i am doing something right.

 

Ps. it takes 5 yeras to become a doctor, a guy who needs to be told by his patients what's wrong with them!!! To become a Vet takes 7 years and the patients canny talk.

[Big Davie]

This is your own post Watty, but it seems you have learned all that is needed to be known about vaccination since posting that in fact you don't.

IMO Unless you are qualified PERSONALLY on the nature of the break down of Vaccines then you really aught NOT to be giving advice on it. The post above is Suggesting i am using my Vaccine wrongly, however i don't have a problem with PMV in my lofts so on the Evidence i am doing something right.

 

Ps. it takes 5 yeras to become a doctor, a guy who needs to be told by his patients what's wrong with them!!! To become a Vet takes 7 years and the patients canny talk.

Very clever, informed, and well thought out post Mr Q

[JohnQuinn]

Very clever, informed, and well thought out post Mr Q

 

Am away tae work noo Davy, less stressful and more straight forward getting a 120 drunks oot ma pub than debating this lol.

[billt]

Surely we only need to follow instructions on the bottle and job done

[Guest darren cantrill]

hi just a quick update hope you are all well the hens section is coming right my good grizzle hen is still going just about standing up my saintes hen still wont fly up to a perch but is full of herself ive had outbreaks in different sections now though some birds are absolutely perfect handle a dream ???? and just for the record we use a vet b4 breeding old bird racing and young bird racing we don't and never have treated pigeons with antibiotics unless advised by a vet theres some soar grapes going round that we treat for this we treat for that well they are sore losers we dontneed excuses when we are winning but you pitiful rumour mongers need them when you lose the difference is dedication hardwork and willingness to learn I am truly grateful for the help and advice ive received on here I really am we made mistakes ive hopefully learned from them and we move on and to those people who keep putting the boot in wait till next year il be gunning for you well my birds will and we will see what excuses you find for the lack of prize cards next season sorry everyone but im annoyed with the local gossip mongers who have read this thread who fly in my fed and spread rumours ive never hidden nothing id help anyone and ive given birds off my best to anyone who wanted them and all you get is knives thrown at your back

[JohnQuinn]

Good on ye Darren, i hope all yer doos come round now and ye have another great season next year. atvb John.

[Guest darren cantrill]

Good on ye Darren, i hope all yer doos come round now and ye have another great season next year. atvb John.

 

 

thankyou john

[peter pandy]

What I cannot figure out about this post is WHO INFORMED YOU THAT YOU HAD PARAMYXOVIRUS IN YOUR LOFT ?.in fact has any body on Pigeon Basics had this virus and who informed you ?. Was it your vet or the guy down the street or you have read about the symptoms elsewhere and surmised your birds were infected... The reason I am asking is DEFRA would have been involved and sent their vets, samples would have been taken which takes 7 days to analyse and they would have officially informed you but I haven't read anywhere that this procedure has been carried out.

[andy Burgess]

hi just a quick update hope you are all well the hens section is coming right my good grizzle hen is still going just about standing up my saintes hen still wont fly up to a perch but is full of herself ive had outbreaks in different sections now though some birds are absolutely perfect handle a dream ???? and just for the record we use a vet b4 breeding old bird racing and young bird racing we don't and never have treated pigeons with antibiotics unless advised by a vet theres some soar grapes going round that we treat for this we treat for that well they are sore losers we dontneed excuses when we are winning but you pitiful rumour mongers need them when you lose the difference is dedication hardwork and willingness to learn I am truly grateful for the help and advice ive received on here I really am we made mistakes ive hopefully learned from them and we move on and to those people who keep putting the boot in wait till next year il be gunning for you well my birds will and we will see what excuses you find for the lack of prize cards next season sorry everyone but im annoyed with the local gossip mongers who have read this thread who fly in my fed and spread rumours ive never hidden nothing id help anyone and ive given birds off my best to anyone who wanted them and all you get is knives thrown at your back

glad to hear the end is in sight for this problem Darren , best of luck for the future

[Guest darren cantrill]

What I cannot figure out about this post is WHO INFORMED YOU THAT YOU HAD PARAMYXOVIRUS IN YOUR LOFT ?.in fact has any body on Pigeon Basics had this virus and who informed you ?. Was it your vet or the guy down the street or you have read about the symptoms elsewhere and surmised your birds were infected... The reason I am asking is DEFRA would have been involved and sent their vets, samples would have been taken which takes 7 days to analyse and they would have officially informed you but I haven't read anywhere that this procedure has been carried out.

 

 

for your information peter everybody was notified and I was clinically confirmed as having pmv by a vet who works for the government the steps I was taking were counted as sufficient ie diposal of waste cleaning boots entering in and out of garden my birds are confined till further notice ive even spoken to a vet in belgiam anything else you would like to know peter??????and I didn't just see some symptoms and think oh my god what have we here I was open and honest peter not like most if you spent a little time and read my previous posts you will see that I had already answered this question earlierand I have been suffering this problem for 6wks not 5days!!!!!

[Guest darren cantrill]

glad to hear the end is in sight for this problem Darren , best of luck for the future

 

thankyou andy

[peter pandy]

for your information peter everybody was notified and I was clinically confirmed as having pmv by a vet who works for the government the steps I was taking were counted as sufficient ie diposal of waste cleaning boots entering in and out of garden my birds are confined till further notice ive even spoken to a vet in belgiam anything else you would like to know peter??????and I didn't just see some symptoms and think oh my god what have we here I was open and honest peter not like most if you spent a little time and read my previous posts you will see that I had already answered this question earlierand I have been suffering this problem for 6wks not 5days!!!!!

Darren I have obviously upset you which was never my intention and I notice now the above. I posted what I have experience off and will inform you and readers of my post.. The local vet was informed there was suspected PMV in the loft and he informed DEFRA who sent 3 vets in white suits and dressed appropriately for quarantine conditions, They took samples including a bird with PMV symptoms for autopsy and tests which took 7 days for results which by the way proved negative. They could not inform us what the actual problem was as they were only concerned about viral PMV. At a later date it was proved to be immunity due to misuse of antibiotics. Not my doing. I sincerely wish you good fortune in the future.

[Guest darren cantrill]

Darren I have obviously upset you which was never my intention and I notice now the above. I posted what I have experience off and will inform you and readers of my post.. The local vet was informed there was suspected PMV in the loft and he informed DEFRA who sent 3 vets in white suits and dressed appropriately for quarantine conditions, They took samples including a bird with PMV symptoms for autopsy and tests which took 7 days for results which by the way proved negative. They could not inform us what the actual problem was as they were only concerned about viral PMV. At a later date it was proved to be immunity due to misuse of antibiotics. Not my doing. I sincerely wish you good fortune in the future.

 

 

peter im just a little grumpy my friend im in and out of my pen in disposable overalls gloves and cover shoes I disinfect the garden path the two rugs at the front of my house and blowtorch everyday I was given the overalls by the vet I already had the gloves and goggles and masks I have kept the bloody dog at home for 5weeks no walks so I dont spread anything anywhere the 2 antibiotics we have used with our pigeons this year where prescribed by the vet the first being pharmisan last feb as we had every known illness going after a swab and faeces sample even had corona virus present lol get your head round that one and we retested in june for young bird racing and we where prescribed appralan as we had issues with the young bird team the hardest part was when the pigeons where healthy after testing and antibiotics they were hard to beat but as I have now been informed by a vet our management programme was wrong his exact words where u medicate to cure illness or health issues to keep them health issues from reoccurring you must step up your management and care programme by this he meant blowtorch and break the infection cycle and for the persistant issues you must think of withdrawing any carriers of illness from your lofts we had a worm issue so we treated for worms I don't keep treating every week for worms I try to keep them at bay and have now changed my cleaning routine I was scared of the blowtorch in case it burnt down my pen I aint scared no more cause im at it all the bloody time and no more worm problems ive now learnt the biggest secret in pigeon racing nothing escapes the blow torch we won 50 plus cards this year peter with 11 old birds and 24 young birds could of had loads more but we didn't want to dis hearten other members we made mistakes peter put we listened and rectified them and fit healthy pigeons win races we hope when we retest with the vets next year we have no health issues but if we do then we will do what the vet advises but hopefully the change in our management of the team will keep most infections and parasites at bay

[JohnQuinn]

peter im just a little grumpy my friend im in and out of my pen in disposable overalls gloves and cover shoes I disinfect the garden path the two rugs at the front of my house and blowtorch everyday I was given the overalls by the vet I already had the gloves and goggles and masks I have kept the bloody dog at home for 5weeks no walks so I dont spread anything anywhere the 2 antibiotics we have used with our pigeons this year where prescribed by the vet the first being pharmisan last feb as we had every known illness going after a swab and faeces sample even had corona virus present lol get your head round that one and we retested in june for young bird racing and we where prescribed appralan as we had issues with the young bird team the hardest part was when the pigeons where healthy after testing and antibiotics they were hard to beat but as I have now been informed by a vet our management programme was wrong his exact words where u medicate to cure illness or health issues to keep them health issues from reoccurring you must step up your management and care programme by this he meant blowtorch and break the infection cycle and for the persistant issues you must think of withdrawing any carriers of illness from your lofts we had a worm issue so we treated for worms I don't keep treating every week for worms I try to keep them at bay and have now changed my cleaning routine I was scared of the blowtorch in case it burnt down my pen I aint scared no more cause im at it all the bloody time and no more worm problems ive now learnt the biggest secret in pigeon racing nothing escapes the blow torch we won 50 plus cards this year peter with 11 old birds and 24 young birds could of had loads more but we didn't want to dis hearten other members we made mistakes peter put we listened and rectified them and fit healthy pigeons win races we hope when we retest with the vets next year we have no health issues but if we do then we will do what the vet advises but hopefully the change in our management of the team will keep most infections and parasites at bay

 

They cigars are gonny be the death of them Darren, better get them onto the dummy cigs in future