Guest Shannon Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Ah, since I can't stir up the local flyers here in the El Paso, Texas, USA, region, let's see if I can stir up the PB forum members a wee bit. In the '40s and '50s, many Belgains living in the US--especially the Detroit, Michigan, area--used a "jealousy" system to motivate their OB teams. Widowhood was still "king," but this system was used as well. In a nutshell the "J" system used loudly colored (grizzles, whites, and gay pieds) cocks to stir up the cocks in a loft prior to basketing. Results varied depending upon the fanciers involved, but . . . it served its purpose. In the late '90s I inherited a few birds from the Messenger Pigeon Project--a project designed to test racing birds in the deep Winter snows of Northern Wisconsin. End goal was to develop dependable "communications" for remote cabins in the region. When the project disbanded I ended up with five pigeons--two cocks and three hens--that had survived the trials. One cock was a magnificent Blue that was first back to the loft (although I don't know how long it took) in 21 of the 21 trials. And he was a beauty bred by a California fancier. I called the fancier to inquire about the "pedigree" of this bird, not that it would matter, but I am a "curious" sort. He told me, and I've long since forgotten that tidbit. He commented in a conspiratorial tone that he had a "secret" weapon he was working with in California. Did I say I was the "curious" sort? He shared with me the "secret"--Spanish thief pouters (STPs). I had read about them in levi's book, and that was the extent of my knowledge of this "secret" weapon. He went on to desribe HOW to use these birds to motivate racing pigeons. A year later, while attending a show in New Mexico, a fancier shared with me that he, too, had STPs. But his were New Mexican TPs based on birds from Mexico that were, in turn, from Argentina. I asked him to bring a few for me to examine. They were nondescript "mongrel" TPs based on Valencian TPs. At the same show I met Jose "Pepe" Morales, a Spaniard working on his doctorate in English literature at the University of New Mexico. I asked Pepe about STPs. His face lite up, and he exclaimed that he was a STP breeder. OK, I know, this damn story is getting longer! I ended up with STPs of the mongrel Valencian type from both Pepe and the other fancier, as that was all that was available in New Mexico. I flew them here in Texas and then began using them to motivate my racing teams. For OBs, I would lock the cocks inside their nest box, leaving the hens loose in the loft. Then I added four TP cocks into the loft with the hens. Of course chaos ensued and the cocks wanted out to kick some TP _ss. I varied the time the TP cocks were with the hens and settled on two minutes as about right. After two minutes, I would return the TP cocks to their pens, and basket the cocks and hens headed to the race. The cocks I didn't ship were released into the loft where they spent frantic minutes trying to find the interlopers. They soon settled but this set the stage for further motivation in the weeks that followed. By week six I didn't have to release the TP cocks into the loft; all I did was hold one of the TPs in my hand and walk him past the nest boxes, stopping at each one to allow the homer cock to see the hated enemy. The hens reacted the same way, dancing to the bird in my hand. Some flying up to the landing board in front of the nest box for a closer look and some bowing and cooing. I tried this approach with my ten widowhood cocks, too, with mixed success, but with much improved lighting fast, through the open door trapping ALWAYS. It worked with hens flown to the perch, with YBs as well. Use your imagination here. And if you are in Scotland you'll have access to some cracker Horseman Thief Pouters (HTPs) with which to work. I had a few of those but crossed them with Homers to improve the TPs homing skills and flying range. My current TP flying team is almost 100% HTP x homer crosses. So . . . you might find this approach will work in your loft with your pigeons . . . or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buster151 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 a good interesting read Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiley Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Done something similar but not with any fancy breeds done it by putting strangers stock cocks into the section works just as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Done something similar but not with any fancy breeds done it by putting strangers stock cocks into the section works just as well.me to works with naturals as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Interesting read Shannon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Shannon Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Thanks mates! Glad you enjoyed my blather. Of course, that's HOW the old Belgians here in the US did it too. They used old stock cocks, albeit those with loud colors or pied patterns. The difference, in my estimation, is the AMOUNT of interest you get with thief pouter cocks (or even hens). TPs are bred for sex. And flirtation. And drive. And . . . they are off the charts in their wooing. Many have pendulous crops. They tend to have a quite different, deeper, more resonant coo as well. They are far more sexy than the most sexy racing pigeon you can imagine. Just Google "thief pouter You Tube videos" to get an idea. That being said, if old stock cocks work, then that's just fine. If you ever try a TP, however, you'll leave the old stock cocks in the breeding loft. Good flying in the 2013 season. Shannon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiley Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Always liked Spanish thief pouter there like gold dust, never been able to get one ,I believe they play the game with them up in Scotland alot, tried to get some many moons ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Burgess Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Always liked Spanish thief pouter there like gold dust, never been able to get one ,I believe they play the game with them up in Scotland alot, tried to get some many moons ago.have given several away to my neighbour accross the road , have 3 or 4 in most years . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiley Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Always liked the look of the Spanish ones, I have a series of hutches which I use for strays ect I considered getting a few at one time for a bit of fun and have them flying out from there. The ones I was after the chaps that had em wouldn't sell em, and the others weren't the ones I was looking for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Burgess Posted February 25, 2013 Report Share Posted February 25, 2013 Always liked the look of the Spanish ones, I have a series of hutches which I use for strays ect I considered getting a few at one time for a bit of fun and have them flying out from there. The ones I was after the chaps that had em wouldn't sell em, and the others weren't the ones I was looking forthey have all colours accross the way ,even bleach the odd one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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