Another Breeding Question

[andy Burgess]

on the above pairing of Grand-Father x to x Grand-daughter ,what would be the best use of the off-sppring ?? in the race basket or into the stock loft ??

[Guest stb-]

on the above pairing of Grand-Father x to x Grand-daughter ,what would be the best use of the off-sppring ?? in the race basket or into the stock loft ??

race basket for me :emoticon-0167-beer:

[andyyy]

In my opinion, It should be race basket to prove it's self. If it does then maybe stock, No good putting untried birds into stock loft just to take a box up

[andy Burgess]

race basket for me :emoticon-0167-beer:

thanks Rob , "your" answer is much appreciated (and noted)

 

In my opinion, It should be race basket to prove it's self. If it does then maybe stock, No good putting untried birds into stock loft just to take a box up

thanks Andy , understand what your saying , but i have a number of stock , who are un-proven on the road , but am happy with there off-spring

[andyyy]

I know what you mean, i have a few myself, but i have decided last year nothing will go into my stock loft with out it either breeding something, or racing well it's self. last year i put an 09 hen in stock loft who had never been in a basket however, there has been a prize winner in every one of her next for last 3 years paired to same cock (:

[JohnQuinn]

Usually when pairing related birds, be it Grand/S x G/dghtr, half bro sister, aunt/nephew, ye get my gist, it is because i am breeding to Type, in other words replicate the bird i am breeding TO by pairing relatives together.

In a nut shell if the young bird handles, looks and shows traits of what it is bred to replicate i would probably Keep the yb for stock. My own preference when inbreeding for stock is the bird who's genes i want to concentrate On, paired to its own half Bro/Sis whatever the case might be. atb with them whichever way you use them Andy. Cheers John.

[andy Burgess]

I know what you mean, i have a few myself, but i have decided last year nothing will go into my stock loft with out it either breeding something, or racing well it's self. last year i put an 09 hen in stock loft who had never been in a basket however, there has been a prize winner in every one of her next for last 3 years paired to same cock (:

i have been through all my listed race birds , to see what family , pair or ,line they are off , happily most are off stock ,or grand-children of , so cant be happier . i am just trying to (without a crystal ball) see which are the absolute best from which .hopefully when the season ends i wont get shut of the wrong stock pairs or will know by putting sons/daughters or grandchildren to stock i can continue what i have started

[Guest stb-]

Usually when pairing related birds, be it Grand/S x G/dghtr, half bro sister, aunt/nephew, ye get my gist, it is because i am breeding to Type, in other words replicate the bird i am breeding TO by pairing relatives together.

In a nut shell if the young bird handles, looks and shows traits of what it is bred to replicate i would probably Keep the yb for stock. My own preference when inbreeding for stock is the bird who's genes i want to concentrate On, paired to its own half Bro/Sis whatever the case might be. atb with them whichever way you use them Andy. Cheers John.

for me all birds breed within time for yb racing would all go in the basket , a latter one can be breed for stock if required , would only keep for stock if exceptional and from an old bird whom might not produce the year after , dont see the point in stocking a birds breed from jan to may when you could stock a latebreed if neccesary

[andy Burgess]

Usually when pairing related birds, be it Grand/S x G/dghtr, half bro sister, aunt/nephew, ye get my gist, it is because i am breeding to Type, in other words replicate the bird i am breeding TO by pairing relatives together. In a nut shell if the young bird handles, looks and shows traits of what it is bred to replicate i would probably Keep the yb for stock. My own preference when inbreeding for stock is the bird who's genes i want to concentrate On, paired to its own half Bro/Sis whatever the case might be. atb with them whichever way you use them Andy. Cheers John.

thanks for your view John , its also much appreciated .if i can pick up on one part inparticular " replicate the bird " ,this will be the aim with the offspring , and hopefully they will do well in the race basket ,which is my desired ambition . however , there wouldnt be a problem with a 3rd round ,and putting these aside may help me longterm as future stock ,thank you.

 

for me all birds breed within time for yb racing would all go in the basket , a latter one can be breed for stock if required , would only keep for stock if exceptional and from an old bird whom might not produce the year after , dont see the point in stocking a birds breed from jan to may when you could stock a latebreed if neccesary

both above views seem a good plan to me

[just ask me]

My breeding plans work around close breeding like this but I will have a cross that works before I go back to the orginal cock they have to be proven in the race basket before they go in the stock loft unless its a cross bought in of course I have 3 or 4 cocks which are all related which I work around one cross that works is great as the one line runs though nearlly all my young ones so one good cross should work with multiple pigeons well that's the idea lol

[bullcock]

on the above pairing of Grand-Father x to x Grand-daughter ,what would be the best use of the off-sppring ?? in the race basket or into the stock loft ??

When we line breed or inbreed our birds we are breeding off the best blood in our lofts, so in effect we are trying to increase our odds of breeding more good ones and by homing in on our best blood we are increasing our odds of producing another good one.

If your blessed with a loft of good ones then you should keep breeding and RACING there blood lines, but if you only have one or two good ones then to improve your odds I would STOCK sons and daughters off them and breed from them for racing, again trying to capture the winning blood and improving your odds of breeding more winners, they all won't breed winners but if you find one pair that does then you have cracked it and you can continue the life long cycle of improving your odds.

Being a Master Breeder is key to being a Master Racer.

[peter pandy]

Andy.

If you can read 1st Feb 2013 Racing Pigeon Rod Adams Default Setting 318 Dr Rigg's findings !! It will explain better than I what you are up against..

[demolition man]

on the above pairing of Grand-Father x to x Grand-daughter ,what would be the best use of the off-sppring ?? in the race basket or into the stock loft ??

 

 

Andy

 

inbreeding should only be done with top pigeons. and when inbreeding you must be is very selective the best way to inbreed is to select top pigeons mother to son, father to dtg or brother and sister matings. These would be birds that i would wan't to hold a specific line and breed for the stock loft. My next job would be to do the same with another very good winning familys that are inbred then out cross the children of these winning blood lines together. The off sping when paired together should ignite the birds and you should get all you want for the racing loft. Jmo

[bullcock]

Andy

 

inbreeding should only be done with top pigeons. and when inbreeding you must be is very selective the best way to inbreed is to select top pigeons mother to son, father to dtg or brother and sister matings. These would be birds that i would wan't to hold a specific line and breed for the stock loft. My next job would be to do the same with another very good winning familys that are inbred then out cross the children of these winning blood lines together. The off sping when paired together should ignite the birds and you should get all you want for the racing loft. Jmo

Well said

[Wiley]

Grandfather to Grandaughter in my opinion is not inbreeding but line breeding. We've had many good racing pigeons from line breeding. Mother to son, Father to Daughter, Brother to Sister, Sister to Brother would be deemed as inbreeding, this way has only ever produced birds of good type but not the greatest of racing ability, but there has been pigeons to break the rule.The best in my opinion is Cross breeding and line breeding.

An interesting fact the best fancier last Season in The London North Road Combine and individual Points winner in East London Fed has no stock pigeons, but practices Line Breeding heavily, and the only crosses put to his birds are those youngsters bred for him to race, the best of these imports are then crossed.

[demolition man]

Grandfather to Grandaughter in my opinion is not inbreeding but line breeding. We've had many good racing pigeons from line breeding. Mother to son, Father to Daughter, Brother to Sister, Sister to Brother would be deemed as inbreeding, this way has only ever produced birds of good type but not the greatest of racing ability, but there has been pigeons to break the rule.The best in my opinion is Cross breeding and line breeding.

An interesting fact the best fancier last Season in The London North Road Combine and individual Points winner in East London Fed has no stock pigeons, but practices Line Breeding heavily, and the only crosses put to his birds are those youngsters bred for him to race, the best of these imports are then crossed.

 

 

Yes Ryan i must agree Grandfather to Grandaughter is not inbreeding but line breeding, i misread the post and went off on one:: :emoticon-0136-giggle:

[Guest Owen]

Pigeons that are paired together should always have some sort of performance behind them regardless of whether they are related or not. Putting related pigeons together on the basis of information from a pedigree that was written by someone else is sheer madness.

Progress in terms of improving the performance of a pigeon loft can only be done by fair and thorough progeny testing. I know that there are plenty of Pigeon Fanciers who want to find short cuts by employing all sorts of criteria other than performance but they are not very likely to get far.

If you seriously think that your pigeons are super performers then it is worth trying a related pairing providing that you realise that the ultimate judgement must be how the youngsters perform racing. If I were in your position I would mate the cock to 6 hens one of which would be his daughter or granddaughter. You can do this by using the Bull System of breeding. The benefits of doing this would be that you should have a nice bunch of youngsters to try out. Obviously if some of these youngsters are poor performers you will have valuable information to carry on with. I have always found that my best racers are best at producing good racers.

[walterboswell59]

with line and inbreding i breed six or more yb and train all hard 20 to thirty tosses if one is sticking out i stop that one if not they all race untill one does get a prize or untill they fly every race even if you do not race them you must train them to find any weakness as they may appear strong and heathy but have no homing abillity hope this helps m8

[Tony C]

My thoughts are anything bred this time of year are to be raced. Breeding for stock is best done when days are longer & the weather is kinder. Anything bred during the summer must be an A1 specimin, any faults and it doesn't make it.

[walterboswell59]

one of the best breeding cocks in the world was kuyper bros the spin he was bred form two genarations of full brother and sister matings his blood lines are in smaragd 1 2 3 barcelona 1 2 3 plus de st vincent and many more all big national winners 13 in total he is sire or grandsire to a fantastic stock cock and i am happy to say i have this great stock cocks blood in abundance running threw my loft and more important they are winning at club and fed cant wait to get them over the water

[andy Burgess]

with line and inbreding i breed six or more yb and train all hard 20 to thirty tosses if one is sticking out i stop that one if not they all race untill one does get a prize or untill they fly every race even if you do not race them you must train them to find any weakness as they may appear strong and heathy but have no homing abillity hope this helps m8

understand that fully Wattie ,i am a bit limited on space now , looking to reduce numbers too. saying that i do need to test all off spring ,will try a pair so at least i have some unit of measure .

 

My thoughts are anything bred this time of year are to be raced. Breeding for stock is best done when days are longer & the weather is kinder. Anything bred during the summer must be an A1 specimin, any faults and it doesn't make it.

i have 2 cocks and a hen off this original cock ,they were flown back in Wales and won or carded .last year all bred card winners here .for the future i am looking to produce the same or for the future to have half brothers and sisters to pair to existing stock (the dam is 9 year old now , and only occasionly laying)

 

one of the best breeding cocks in the world was kuyper bros the spin he was bred form two genarations of full brother and sister matings his blood lines are in smaragd 1 2 3 barcelona 1 2 3 plus de st vincent and many more all big national winners 13 in total he is sire or grandsire to a fantastic stock cock and i am happy to say i have this great stock cocks blood in abundance running threw my loft and more important they are winning at club and fed cant wait to get them over the water

would dream of having some quality like that pal.

[eagle79]

When we line breed or inbreed our birds we are breeding off the best blood in our lofts, so in effect we are trying to increase our odds of breeding more good ones and by homing in on our best blood we are increasing our odds of producing another good one.

If your blessed with a loft of good ones then you should keep breeding and RACING there blood lines, but if you only have one or two good ones then to improve your odds I would STOCK sons and daughters off them and breed from them for racing, again trying to capture the winning blood and improving your odds of breeding more winners, they all won't breed winners but if you find one pair that does then you have cracked it and you can continue the life long cycle of improving your odds.

Being a Master Breeder is key to being a Master Racer.

great answer