ghostrider Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 pvmrs..50..to over 500,and won.also soontjens,,50 to 500 milersi know someone won a gold medal with a soontjen cock from saintes.he sent it again a year later,and it came 2nd.when i chatted to him,i said i thought soontjens were sprinters.. he said,its all down to the art of feeding.i found out awhile later that jos's birds were originally distance pigeons. atb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 Billtyou are right, I am an old cynic. I think the pigeon racing scene is dogged by lies and distortions aimed at selling birds to people who are gullible. Just look at the lofts that do not race any more but want to sell birds for big money. The big misunderstanding is that buying performance livestock is like buying cars or other mechanical devises. If you buy a car or a watch it is reasonable to expect it to perform as advertised in the specification. Then the price follows the spec. I would be willing to bet that no-one could have guessed that Frankel was going to be as good as he turned out or that his brother would be so far below him in terms of performances. Just look at the progeny of the top stallions that fail and the people who have bought them will have lost serious money. The situation with racing pigeons is far worse because breeders will continually breed from birds that have not been tried and tested. The con is that these birds will be given strain names that are meant to tell the buyer what they can expect. Obviously some of these "Trophy Birds" can be carrying the winning genes but the whole thing is a huge gamble.I still think that a new starter's best bet is to go to a Fancier who is winning races at the sort of distances he would be interested in and buy something good from there. Or alternatively buy something good from an Entire Clearance Sale. The label that the successful Fancier puts on his birds is irrelevant.I know that there will be some who will think that I am wrong to continually trot these things out and I know that the Sellers of pigeons labeled with the old strain names get very angry because they know that I am right. About the best I can do is to try to help the new starters in a way that will help them to acquire good pigeons and win their share of the races. If people like us are going to make a contribution to try to save and improve the sport we really have to kick this rubbish into touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just ask me Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 pvmrs..50..to over 500,and won.also soontjens,,50 to 500 milersi know someone won a gold medal with a soontjen cock from saintes.he sent it again a year later,and it came 2nd.when i chatted to him,i said i thought soontjens were sprinters.. he said,its all down to the art of feeding.i found out awhile later that jos's birds were originally distance pigeons. atb as far as i know the tom was a jannsen bassed pigeon from his fathers birds Van Herstraeten hen was from a neigbour as the soontjens only raced from quiv and nyon which means roughly about 60 mile would be the furthest that jos would have raced its very unlikely that there is a whole lot of distance blood in the original pair as they only raced sprint races only pros roosen who tore clubs apart with his soontjens on the sprint so much so he couldnt race when he moved up to light middle and middle distance people laughed at him with his sprinters he then went on to rip the middle distance apart too he did bring in crosses to them later on when he moved up again but he had many wins with half soontjens on the middle and hevey middle most of the early jos soontjen birds that came to the uk would have been inbred back to the pair after a certain time a lot of the soonjens that came had a cross of the van lock birds in them people stick labels on pigeons sprinters etc if there good enough they will win from most race points no matter what label we stick on them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 just ask meI think you are right when you say that pigeons will win from any distance if they are managed right and are good enough. I have had a shock this year when a late bred Jan Arden cock that was given to me turned out to be my best youngster.On the other hand my pigeons are very consistent because they often come in groups. I am sure that this is because they have been selected from successful sprinters. I intend to start to breed from middle distance birds next year and hopefully breed birds just as consistent but obviously from different race points. I should learn a lot from trying this idea out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just ask me Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 just ask meI think you are right when you say that pigeons will win from any distance if they are managed right and are good enough. I have had a shock this year when a late bred Jan Arden cock that was given to me turned out to be my best youngster.On the other hand my pigeons are very consistent because they often come in groups. I am sure that this is because they have been selected from successful sprinters. I intend to start to breed from middle distance birds next year and hopefully breed birds just as consistent but obviously from different race points. I should learn a lot from trying this idea out. i bet you will find owen birds that done well at the shorter races will do well at longer distances just be careful though as sometimes they dont take to well to sprinting after being pushed further than 350 mile my advice would be when they get a little older send them on further as once they hit 3 years of age i reckon most start to slow a little so these are ones i push further as there career most of the time is over but being pushed on you can get another year or two out of a good bird no problems at all i would bet if you did push your birds that are bred for sprinting further they will more than give the birds that you may have bought in for middle distance a run for there money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted November 10, 2012 Report Share Posted November 10, 2012 just ask meI have no real taste for distance racing and I have specialised in sprinting. This has meant that my breeders are selected on the basis of their results in this type of race. I also set a lot of store by the results gained by youngsters because I want early maturing birds. The positive reasons for this are that there is far more money to be won in both Young Bird Races and Sprints. This is important in these days of high expense. The down side of this is that I do not compete in the Nationals.In regard to my good cock, I will carry on flying him as a sprinter for at least a couple of years and see what happens then. I think that he is a likely candidate for breeding quality middle distance birds but that decision will depend on him continuing to shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest darren cantrill Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 i totally agree with owen and what hes said in all quotes is spot on money money money is what its all about now and its crushing the sport the weight of expectation linked to big money purchases of this strain or that is link to people out to make money who advertises these new so called strains? the pigeon merchants good old george buschaert was a pigeon merchant and bought from the best in europe van lint was a pigeon merchant most of his winners began life in other peoples pens the word strain should be changed to type!!! the type of pigeon i like and value has its origin in the van loon pen if you can believe the pedigree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 nice one Darren. I have to admit I hadn't thought of the idea of type as a description.Mind you I disregard everything except performance. I have the easiest selection process anywhere. I select the birds that are the best racers and nothing else. The good thing is that it actually works.The result of this sort of selection is that I have birds of all colours and a variety of sizesbut they are marvelous at their job. And best of all is that my wife and I enjoy the sport. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie1234 Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 Owen how many young birds do you breed and what percentage do you think make the grade from breeding this way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 geordie 1234last year I bred 46 lost 6 to the falcon, 1 to the hawk, and 7 training and racing (some could have been killed by hawks or falcons). They won all but 2 of the youngbird races and the 2 they did not win they got second. I won the highest points of the Welsh South Road Federation East Section and was runner up in the overal Federation points. Not bad when you realise that i did not send to any overseas races and did not send to the first 2 youngbird races. If I had sent to all the races maybe I could have scored more points. I have 15 old bird racers which will be added to by some of this years youngsters. My problem is that I have to dump birds that are better than some people's best birds but it is part of the process of developing a top team of pigeons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJWa Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 geordie 1234last year I bred 46 lost 6 to the falcon, 1 to the hawk, and 7 training and racing (some could have been killed by hawks or falcons). They won all but 2 of the youngbird races and the 2 they did not win they got second. I won the highest points of the Welsh South Road Federation East Section and was runner up in the overal Federation points. Not bad when you realise that i did not send to any overseas races and did not send to the first 2 youngbird races. If I had sent to all the races maybe I could have scored more points. I have 15 old bird racers which will be added to by some of this years youngsters. My problem is that I have to dump birds that are better than some people's best birds but it is part of the process of developing a top team of pigeons. a wee contradiction here owenyou won all the y/b races but 2 in which you were 2nd in bothyou then say you didnt send to the 1st 2 raceshow many races did you actually send tobecause by my counting thats 4 you didnt win not having a pop and you have great results :emoticon-0138-thinking: its just the maths dont add up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Owen Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 I thought i had written that clearly but here goes again. I entered all the inland youngbird races except the first 2. I could count them if you like. I won all but 2 of the races I competed in and i won the ring money. The 2 races that I did not win I came second in. I did not compete in overseas races with either young or old birds.I hope I have got it right this time. it must be my age! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Welsh wizzard Posted November 11, 2012 Report Share Posted November 11, 2012 geordie 1234last year I bred 46 lost 6 to the falcon, 1 to the hawk, and 7 training and racing (some could have been killed by hawks or falcons). They won all but 2 of the youngbird races and the 2 they did not win they got second. I won the highest points of the Welsh South Road Federation East Section and was runner up in the overal Federation points. Not bad when you realise that i did not send to any overseas races and did not send to the first 2 youngbird races. If I had sent to all the races maybe I could have scored more points. I have 15 old bird racers which will be added to by some of this years youngsters. My problem is that I have to dump birds that are better than some people's best birds but it is part of the process of developing a top team of pigeons. Hi owen.You clearly know what you are doing but i have to ask, you said you were the highest points winner in your section but correct me if im wrong but isnt john webber in your section, if so how come you won the section as john was the overall fed champion and surely if he i in your section he would have to have won the section if he won the overall fed winner. But well done on your performances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest maricelbill Posted November 12, 2012 Report Share Posted November 12, 2012 Owen, the silly season has started in earnest. :emoticon-0123-party: :emoticon-0123-party: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john@formula 1 lofts Posted November 17, 2012 Report Share Posted November 17, 2012 Never heard of them John is there any articles online about this family/strain of pigeon? Hi mate, Mark Gilbert has them as do one or two others they are proper long distance birds and ones to watch for in the coming years in the UK IMO John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john@formula 1 lofts Posted February 10, 2013 Report Share Posted February 10, 2013 http://www.rutz-pigeons.de/pigeons.html some more info on the Rutz pigeons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 louella jan aardens for me win as yb yrl and old birds from 60 to 500 miles club fed and national and i race natural Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scousebilly Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 louella jan aardens for me win as yb yrl and old birds from 60 to 500 miles club fed and national and i race natural Van Billys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novo10 Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 de weerdt all distances Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanarkshire lad Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Yellow kirkpatricks crossed with chocolate meulemuns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster J. Cogburn Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Been on a lot of loft visits over the last few years and its not often ye come across fanciers who could claim to have their own 'strain'.Few and far between,impressive when ye see it mind you "Make your own doos" is what one such fancier told me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnQuinn Posted February 11, 2013 Report Share Posted February 11, 2013 Cattrysse or Cattrysse x Leopold Cadou, good from 60 to 500 mls in any weather. jmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraftykev Posted March 16, 2013 Report Share Posted March 16, 2013 Kirkpatricks 80 miles to 650 + Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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