Jack Barkel Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 To Bewted, Merlin, Slugmonkey, Doo, and other interested parties on this forum who would like to share in my theories on eye sign or signs in the eye. I feel I must start at the beginning with how I observe the eye as well as some other physical characteristics that go to make up the recognition of how one can tell from the eye in which direction a racing pigeon is evolving or regressing. To me this is the main reason for eye sign, to increase the quality and amount of the correct genes in the gene pool of anyone’s stock loft. I refer to it as genetic drift, and as far as I am aware, I am the first to lay down a concrete pattern, that we can all use as a formula for poor, medium and good eyes that will direct us on a course over a period of 3 to 5 years that will, formulate for us a stock loft of pigeons bristling with the genes we are looking for. Remember that the racing pigeon was developed by man, and he used several types of fancy pigeons to add to the long distance homer, to give buoyancy and speed to the Dragoon and English Carrier, to name two of the originals. Nature is continually fighting to restore these hybrids to one or other of these strains, and that is where the variables keep popping up. I intend in future postings, to show these variables by photographic examples, which will steer all in a much more successful direction of breeding top racing pigeons. My theory is not a fallacy, for I have proven it in different parts of the world, and although I ceased competing in 1997, my pigeons are still breeding class pigeons for others until this day. I will start compiling my future articles this weekend, please have patience. Jack Barkel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE PRIEST Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Please keep it coming jack some of us are here to learn from the best and ignore the rest. I have only taken a interest in the eye over the last month and find it very interesting. michael. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 To Bewted, Merlin, Slugmonkey, Doo, and other interested parties on this forum who would like to share in my theories on eye sign or signs in the eye. I feel I must start at the beginning with how I observe the eye as well as some other physical characteristics that go to make up the recognition of how one can tell from the eye in which direction a racing pigeon is evolving or regressing. To me this is the main reason for eye sign, to increase the quality and amount of the correct genes in the gene pool of anyone’s stock loft. I refer to it as genetic drift, and as far as I am aware, I am the first to lay down a concrete pattern, that we can all use as a formula for poor, medium and good eyes that will direct us on a course over a period of 3 to 5 years that will, formulate for us a stock loft of pigeons bristling with the genes we are looking for. Remember that the racing pigeon was developed by man, and he used several types of fancy pigeons to add to the long distance homer, to give buoyancy and speed to the Dragoon and English Carrier, to name two of the originals. Nature is continually fighting to restore these hybrids to one or other of these strains, and that is where the variables keep popping up. I intend in future postings, to show these variables by photographic examples, which will steer all in a much more successful direction of breeding top racing pigeons. My theory is not a fallacy, for I have proven it in different parts of the world, and although I ceased competing in 1997, my pigeons are still breeding class pigeons for others until this day. I will start compiling my future articles this weekend, please have patience. Jack Barkel jack,i wish to thank you very much on your forth coming articles in here again,i for one have missed your teachings in the eyesigns !!! please,if any one here has no interest or dont beleive it what so ever,let us that do want to learn,keep out of the thread with any more stupidity or the like,if jack barkel has decided to come back i congratulate him on doing so and feel that this site can gain much from his knowledge,but,can lose a lot more if he goes from this site again,please,please lets just keep this thread for eyesign and not the arguement thread,,,if any one cares to criticice or what ever,do it on another thread,NOT HERE PLEASE !!! welcome back mr barkel and i look forward to your future articles on here again,i am one very happy student of yours !!! my very best regards ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsberg Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 can't wait to learn should be very interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doo Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 Great I'm really looking forward to this.......I would also echo what Bewted has said...if it's not your thing don't waste it for others ...please. thanks again Jack all the best Stevie Barbour Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted February 15, 2008 Report Share Posted February 15, 2008 I have not fully committed to eyesign but the simple fact is that I don't know much about it so therefore cannot in good consience form an opinion on it ! there are other threads in here where you can discuss the validity of eyesign theory but this is not it ! I have read other post's of Mr Barkel's and most seem quite knowledgable and well informed so I am willing to give the benifit of the doubt, I honestly belive there is something to be learned here and am glad mr Barkel is willing to share his beliefs with us Please if you don't have an HONEST question stay silent you are not being asked to put in time here so don't feel obligated to make your presence known I as stated by merlin do have some questions and am sure I will not agree whole heartedly with everything that is said here but I am sure also that there will be some aspects of this subject that I had not pondered and need to re-examine, I have had a couple of experiences with eyesign guys and was very suspect at their findings but one turned out to be correct and my program is better for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Article 1. We will start with the eyes of those pigeons who's eyes show a definite regression towards the fancy pigeons that was introduced to the Homing Pigeon to increase buoyancy and speed. Please remember that these eyes in this first example will have little homing ability, but in most cases will be light and have speed. Most birds with these eye markings may win races but will eventually get lost. If introduced to the stock loft, because somewhere deep down in the gene pool there may lurk the gene of a good pigeon, it will be possible for this type of bird to produce a good pigeon. It must be realised that it's mate may also be the reason for a good one popping out, for it needs four good eyes to breed the higher percentages of good pigeons we are looking for. The statistics however tells us that the rate will be in the region of 7% that is to say 93 out of one hundred will be unacceptable for our stock lofts. Many people acquire a winning team and maintain it for a few years, however in most cases the deterioration/regression sets in, and there is a headlong decline to mediocrity and sometimes even worse. I must tell you that other regressions can be found in the increase in distance of the humerus bone from the body, and the step in the wing from the secondary flights to the first primary. Length and depth of keel bone is another variable we must endeavour to control. These variables are easily controlled by selection, but the eye is the most sensitive and intricate of all these pointers towards the near perfect racing pigeon. It must also be observed that a good racing person can win the shorter races with a pet shop pigeon, when his club members are lacking in this department. These and many more pointers go to razing doubts of the credibility of signs in the eye. Please notice that the irises of these eyes are very thin and in some places none existent. They come in both the yellow and the pearl eye, but mainly in the pearl. Most have a good racing sign which is the composite on the adaptation, which means they could be on the front of the pack on a short to middle distance blow home race. The correlations are also very wide, which increases the doubt of the bird competing at any great distance. These variable in the eye are what I refer to as genetic drift, and believe me it is a scientific fact, although doubted by some. Should any of you not be in possession of the names and positioning of the different eye circles, I can put them up on this site again. Just state you would like this before we progress any further and I will gladly put this material on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Posted February 16, 2008 Report Share Posted February 16, 2008 Believe that it would be a good idea,especially for those starting their eye study,several posts over last few days confirms that their is much interest from Eye Study novices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Pupil & Correlation Part 1. I have had several requests to explain with illustrations the different segments of the eye as used in evaluating racing pigeons. This I propose to do for those members who have shown a genuine interest in the eye. I do not intend to try and persuade any person to adopt my beliefs, I have been requested to reveal what I see as important in eye sign recognition, and hope I can meet this request without any harassment. I think it is time for me to present a project in a series, to explain and categorise the parts of the eye that are used in eye sign, and some in iridology. Not to confuse, we will refer to the sections of the eye under the popular names used in eye sign. ******************** Here we have an illustration of an eye previously illustrated, only we have removed all the granular circles or humanly made circles and only retained the two basic circles, which are the pupil and the correlation. Now once we have added the adaptation the correlation then becomes the third visible circle of the eye. It is however much larger than can be seen when the eye is complete for as you can see by this illustration it stretches from the pupil to the outer perimeter of the eye. Now this correlation is similar to a pigmented gel, in this case a yellow base. It is designed in the shape of rods going down into the eye and it varies in density and depth. This can often be diagnosed by the excess making clusters, which we will explain later. Therefore it is important we realise the correlation is the foundation or base structure of the genetic imprint on the eye. This is the only part of the eye structure which is my own theory, you will not find the correlation written or shown in full, anywhere else other than under my own pen. I take every credit for it, and I know from my own experiments that it is factual. ********************************* Now we come to the pupil muscle which as been misnamed and even called the eye sign or adaptation, let me assure you it is neither of these and this misunderstanding has been the lack of progress in many budding eye sign enthusiasts. We can see that the arrow point in the illustration overlaps the beginning of the correlation, I have done this purposefully because that is what this pupil muscle does, it overlaps onto the correlation in most cases right around the edge of the pupil and because of its similar black density in colour to the pupil, it is not easily recognised. We must not judge this sphincter muscle with an eye glass. It has a characteristic, that if it is clearly visible in width it can be very shallow in depth, and if it is not clearly visible in width, it is most often very strong in depth. This is why this muscle cannot be judged visibly by its appearance. The function of this muscle is similar to that of the shutter on a camera lens, it dilates and contracts the pupil to the intensity of light. So if you put the eye into a reasonably bright light you should see a reaction of the pupil which is controlled by this pupil muscle. The Nederland fanciers call it the Verkenning Sirkel, in English it is known as The Circle Of Recognition. I prefer to call it the pupil muscle. You will find that birds who do not possess a reactive pupil fly close to the ground, and those who have a reactive pupil can rise to great heights and seek a helpful wind that will improve their speed on their journey home. Caution here, thirst, anti-biotic and other medication can cause a temporary dysfunction of this particular muscle. Once again I will welcome questions if one is not sure of what I am trying to put across here. No one in the world as far as I know has gone into as much detail as I am prepared to do. I suggest those interested grab this opportunity, for I am sure it will eventually become acceptable common knowledge throughout the pigeon world. Until that day I will have to accept the criticism of some who find it destroys much of their previous beliefs on eye sign or iridology. Nearly forgot to mention the sex drive in a pigeon can also cause a rapid contraction of the pupil, it will be noted that when a cock bird shows strong interest in a hen, his pupils contract to pin points. I will present a series of examples, which are all part of one particular eye, except for the composite sign which when we arrive at that point I will explain. There will be seven illustrations in all. Next project, "The Adaptation". I will continue Article 2. after these explanations are completed. Please bear with me. Regards Jack jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slugmonkey Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 so the pupil muscle is shaped sort of like a ribbon?if it is laid flat it is looks wide if it is on edge it looks narrow ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammy Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 does this muscle always have to be black ,does it not come in gold coloured as well jack ?and if it is narrow and deep then surely it is more benefit to the pigeon when it is racing on bright sunny days ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 The pupil muscle always appears to be dark brown or black. It matters not whether it is wide or thin in appearance, as long as it pulls in, that is to say reactive, then this muscle is doing its job. Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 The pupil muscle always appears to be dark brown or black. It matters not whether it is wide or thin in appearance, as long as it pulls in, that is to say reactive, then this muscle is doing its job. Jack jack,is there any preferance to dark brown or black or does it make no differance ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 Hello Bewted, It makes no difference as long as the muscle is doing its job of pulling in the pupil. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 17, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 The Adaptation. We now discuss the adaptation, this circle is located just outside the pupil, please refer to the example. The width of the circle is variable from pigeon to pigeon, but as long as it matches up in width and colour to the perimeter or fifth circle this does not matter. The circle of adaptation in this particular case is a Yellow Clear, one can have enhancements of gold and green, and when in a pearl eye which is pale pink, we can have enhancements of white, grey, violet, and even charcoal. I will at a later stage put up some photographic examples of these enhancements in the two basic colours. I must emphasise that the adaptation can be made as wide as you wish, for it is of human design and selection. It is wise not to make it wider than the fifth circle, as this will throw the balance of the genes in the wrong direction. I wish to point out at this stage that this part of the eye is linked to the well being of the pigeon, for the outer edge of this adaptation is known in iridology as the nerve wreath. Its detail will show you problems stemming from the digestive tract of the stomach, and with practice and much observation you can also study the bowel and other organs. This is straying from eye sign but I am just making you aware that such problems can be diagnosed in the eyes of our pigeons. I do not wish to transgress into the realms of homeopathy / iridology, there are people more qualified than myself in this department for anyone interested. I myself will stick to eye sign selection. The adaptation is often super imposed with an overlay of composite, which we will discuss next time. I hope you are all still with me, if anyone is not sure, please ask and I will do my best to answer before proceeding any further. Jack Barkel jackbarkel@mweb.co.za http://mysite.mweb.co.za/residents/jackbarkel/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 17, 2008 Report Share Posted February 17, 2008 so,a pigeons eye that does not react to the light as you stated is no good at all for breeding or is not too good for breeding purpposes ?? is this type of bird to be kept in the loft or not ? thank you for answer and please call me ted !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Yes Ted, You are correct, I would never keep a pigeon that did not have a reactive pupil. Caution here as some pupils react to light slower than others, give the pupil time to react, before making a final desicion. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 hi jack is there any differance in the pigeons eye to the reaction of light in a bull eyed pigeon compared to an ordinary eye ? regards ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 No Ted No difference, a bull eyed pigeon has the same chance as any other to have a reactive pupil. My Rapido Whites are a perfect example of this. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 hi jack,re;the correlation. is there any preferance to good or bad with the amount of rods running in this section of the eye ? do they have to be thick or thin rods and what is the main point we are looking for in this section ? hope i got that right, think ? regards ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Barkel Posted February 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 Ted, A good question, it all depends on the the depth or thickness of the correlation. This we can only tell by the clusters or floating clusters in the pupil. We will explain this when we deal with the formation of Star Clusters. Regards Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 thanks jack,now i am with you as i learnt this from you before on here about star clusters !! regards ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 jack,re;nerve wreath is it possible after all is said in learning about the eyesign,could you give some more info on this part of the eye ? i know you stated there are more people qualified than you on this,but,just thought it would make some interesting reading from you as well !!! just a suggestion ! regards ted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bewted Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 jack,re;nerve wreath is it possible after all is said in learning about the eyesign,could you give some more info on this part of the eye ? i know you stated there are more people qualified than you on this,but,just thought it would make some interesting reading from you as well !!! just a suggestion ! regards ted dont want to learn much,do i ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fair Play Posted February 18, 2008 Report Share Posted February 18, 2008 I don't profess to know a thing about eye sign but I do know if I go to the opticians for an eye check by looking at the eye he/she can tell as to your state of health and if there is anything sinister lurking about underneath it maybe the eye is the gateway to inner health, who knows It is never right to dismiss anything out of hand there is good in most things and gives an option to look at things in a different light. It's the diversity of pigeons that makes the subject so exciting if we were all the same or thought the same it would be pointless racing the game would be fighting for second place as we would all be "winners". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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