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wet canker


Guest KING BILLY
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Guest KING BILLY

how maney of yous treet for this and with wot i think this is one of the biggest props in modern day pigeons raceing ridiznol 10% is ok but dosent cover it and emtril is for crop canker dus help but dosent kill it  ;) ;) ;) so if you can help please tell

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Pigeons & wet canker  

All pigeon Fanciers has had pigeons for many years, it is for most of them from genreation to generation, from father to son, they know what wet canker is.  The yellow glum seen in the throat of the bird is knows as the dry form of the disease. As pigeons gets older, they develop a natural immunity to the canker & as a result their response to the canker organisms is better. Squab & young birds who have not yet developed a natural immunity system come under stress and are exposed to large numbers of the cankers form, it quickly develop a severe infection, with large numbers of the organisms present, and the characteristic yellow material becoming visible.  Most young birds have a few trichs (canker organisms) in their throats.  

 

 

This is not a problem.  This low-grade, ongoing exposure stimulates the development of a natural immunity in the young growing pigeon.  As the pigeon becomes older and its natural immunity rises, it therefore becomes harder and harder for them to develop visible canker.  But in pigeons of any age, there are always a few trich organisms present.  The numbers tend to rise and fall, principally depending on what stress the birds are under and the level of exposure to the organism.  In race baskets, canker organisms quickly spread through the drinker and the race itself provides no end of stress – time away from the loft, altered feeding patterns, exertion, exposure to predation, etc.  Because of this, canker organisms fluctuate in the throat throughout the season.  Usually nothing is visible to the fancier.  In very high levels, the throat might appear a bit red or mucousy but this is very subjective.  Often when testing birds with what appear to be good throats, high levels are found and vice versa.  Trichomonads are primary parasites, taking nutrition that would otherwise be available to the birds and releasing toxins into their system.  As trichomonad levels rise, race performance drops away.  Fanciers who try to race teams with high trichomonad levels can expect to win fewer prizes and lose more birds.  Birds with elevated trichomonad levels are said to have wet canker.    

The best way to recognize this problem is to get some saliva from the back of the birds throat and top of the crop examined under a microscope.  This is a simple test, it takes a couple of minutes for a veterinarian.

 

 

The other method is to buy a microscope and do the test yourself.  The test is easy to do, the organisms are easy to identify, and the technique is set out.

 

The positive thing about recognizing the canker is that drugs are used when they are needed and not given when a negative result is returned. A prevention treatment with natural products increasing from the beginning the immune system of the birds will decrease the risks of having canker any time during the year, Improver & AntiFungal are suggested.

 

 

To treat wet canker , all effective drugs that treat canker fall into a group called the nitro-imidazoles.  They are available under many different brands but if you look on the label they will contain one of the following five active ingredients.  The five commonly used nitro-immidazoles are ronidazole, Metronidazole, Secnidazole, Carnidazole, Dimetridazole.

 

These products will take a lot of energy out of your birds to cure them and you will need many days to be able to see them train again, having said that the best way to do a proper treatment is again and again a prevention with Improver and AntiFungal, no pigeon fancier today wants to treat a problem when it occurs, everyone wants to anticipate any problems, after all, most of the time spent with the pigeons should be for the care and the racing.

 

The best preventive patent protected non chemical products in the market are Improver & AntiFungal from Pigeon Vitality in Norway.  With exclusive ingredient from Finland and Norway, the blended formula have been recognized for its natural efficience against most of the pigeon diseases for more than 10 years. A medical cure is only needed if the canker symthops are heavy and a quick treatment is urgently needed.

 

Even though you may be regularly treating for wet canker, e.g. 2 – 3 days every 2 – 3 weeks, you cannot guarantee that any particular drug is killing your particular canker strain.  Resistance to all these drugs is seen.  It is a good idea to have occasional crop flushes done, even if treating regularly, to ensure the drug is doing its job.  Failing that, swapping from one drug to another periodically,eg Turbosole for three treatments and then one Spatrix treatment, and then back to Turbosole, often heads off the development of any resistance.  

 

Basically, the way we approach canker is – avoid treating young pigeons with medicine unless the disease actually makes them sick, use preventive products that will act like a green vaccine.  If we find a few trichs in the crop flush of a young pigeon, we would elect no treatment.  Let them have the exposure they need to develop their natural immunity.  Treating healthy young pigeons serves no purpose and simply interrupts this exposure and delays the development of a natural immunity.  Once racing starts, it is however a completely different ball game.  Having given the birds as long as possible to develop their natural immunity, we must ensure that birds going to the races have no trichs present, otherwise they simply can’t give of their best.  

  

 

 

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Guest KING BILLY

so it is safe to say if the rest of the club dont treet wee have a higher % of birds with this and could have the biggest afect on the birds that get lost due to not treeting

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I think the term 'wet canker' means different things to people. I thought it was a southern hemisphere term for crop canker, as its heavily used by SA & Australian vets.

 

As to trichomonads 'stealing' nutrients from pigeons, as the posted article infers, I'd asked Gordon Chalmers a while back what they fed on and what toxins they produced, and his reply was that there was little work on pigeons to answer that; most work has been on human forms of trichomonads. My opinion only, but a clue might lie in David Parsons guide for microscope use, in which he states 'trichomonads are usually found around pigeon's discarded cheek cells' so I reckon they may be scavengers that clean up dead body stuff like that, and that's probably why the bird's immune system tolerates low levels, they perform a function.

 

And as to those who don't treat causing illness in the race basket, the article posted here does agree with all other veterinary articles on this subject - that our birds should be immune to trichomonads. Seems they also have low survivabilty in the drinker, perhaps minutes rather than hours, so infection that way seems very remote.

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Guest KING BILLY

thare is always another way to look at it if nobody treets for wet canker or birds will have become  immune to it but that wont happen becaus pepole whant to be at the top of there sport and the only way to do thise is to treet and with it beaing a mixed bag of the ones that dont and the ones that do they will always be the number of birds getting lost wee ma have to make it compulsory to treet or dont just to see if wee can help with the loses wee jab for para so wots the difrence this wet canker is the coss of many other infections ybs samanela you name it it starts hear my opinion only  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

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clockman

you did a good job there, Thanks. And you are right on two very important counts. The first being, that birds should not be treated unless there is clear evidence of the disease. And the second is, that after any treatment the birds should be checked again to be sure that the treatment worked. This rule should be applied to all diseases leading to treatments.

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Cheers for that Clockman. Anyone heard of BERIMAX. Seems to have just disapeared. If this had become comercially available I would certainly have tried it given the claims. Check it out here: http://www.pigeonnetwork.com/vetdirectory/vetnorway/drnillsreither/devtrichomonas.cfm

 

http://berimax.com/

This what your looking 4.

Lindsay

 

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Guest Davy Fleming

Have said for years that the biggest problem with losses are the fancier themselves and there management system (myself included). There are MANY GENUINE  reasons for losses  but theee big problem is management  some treat totally blindfolded  and some just pick up the first bottle and say OH they have canker  or something else cause I have heard it with my own ears and just laugh to myself and think you are a clown as YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY HAVE., and repeat Owens sentiments from time to time secondary infection is a big deal cause many fanciers think if you give them a tablet or whatever then everything is OK now and will go to the race on SATURDAY , I would say that is bad and unfair for your club members.  Got a problem them get them tested , treat and check again then go to the race and think you will find returns are much better

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thare is always another way to look at it if nobody treets for wet canker or birds will have become  immune to it but that wont happen becaus pepole whant to be at the top of there sport and the only way to do thise is to treet and with it beaing a mixed bag of the ones that dont and the ones that do they will always be the number of birds getting lost wee ma have to make it compulsory to treet or dont just to see if wee can help with the loses wee jab for para so wots the difrence this wet canker is the coss of many other infections ybs samanela you name it it starts hear my opinion only  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

 

I think it could also be argued that all these illnesses and problems with losses that were mostly unheard of when I was a teenager in the 60's, probably arrived soon after the 'treat' regime took hold, whenever that was. There were also lots more fanciers back then, and they kept fewer birds.

 

We would not be allowed to treat animals that are not ill, much of that behaviour has already been outlawed in farming a couple of years ago, so I don't think 'forcing people to treat' would ever be an option. In my opinion, it's a personal decision, based on the fancier having a good grasp of all the facts. And again in my opinion, I believe many of the facts are hidden or blurred by pharmaceutical concerns keen to protect their income.

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Guest phillip

Evening all . May I also contribute a cent,s worth to this thread .

I only administer treatment for Canker before paring stock birds and then again the young birds when in the flying loft otherwise only when noticing the presence of Canker in any of my birds .

I also whole heartedly agree with Owen & Clockman on their opinion WRT their treatment of Canker in general .

 

 

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Guest KING BILLY

there is not a top fanicer in Scotland i have spoken too that dos not treat every 4 weeks for cancker and i have had the privlage of speaking to a lot over the last 10 years there is always somthing in the water and i dont believe there is that many sqab testing because it is that regular occures so if you want to get in different results through the year with the levels of wet canker so be it its the same as your cocksy count going up and down this is during the racing season everybody can control it but you cant kill it every bird carrys canker so the cross infection during racing season will go throw the roof if you dont treat because it gets cross infected in the water in the basket when racing basically because some treat and some dont  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

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If you treat for canker then the cocci count automatically goes down as well. Cocci levels go up when another disease is present in a pigeon, when this disease is eradicated then the cocci levels go down. I have never wormed or coccied my racing pigeons in over 15 years.

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Guest KING BILLY
If you treat for canker then the cocci count automatically goes down as well. Cocci levels go up when another disease is present in a pigeon, when this disease is eradicated then the cocci levels go down. I have never wormed or coccied my racing pigeons in over 15 years.
but do you treet for canker  ;) ;) ;) ;)

 

 

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Guest KING BILLY
cant realy answer that tam but my last year youngsters never got cankered till may this year as yearlings and it never did them no ill.
not trying to get at you but did you loss as many by not treeting them or was it just the normal loses that can be expected for young ones ;) ;) ;) ;)

 

 

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Guest Freebird

 

http://berimax.com/

This what your looking 4.

Lindsay

Hi Lindsay, That's what I mean. Tried getting this stuf around a year ago but all comms lead nowhere. E mailed them but address not found. Just seems to have dis appeared from the surface of the globe. Thanks anyway, Chazz.

 

 

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