diatomaceous earth

[MsPigeon]

Has anyone used diatomaceous earth for lice and other parasites? I looked it up on the web and read about it's many uses. I bought some at the health food store and decided to give it a try. Any recomendations?  

Carol

[Guest Silverwings]

looks very interesting ! new to me this one had a look on the net, one u k supplier states its ok for pigeons internal and external ? will follow your lead on this one carol !  ,will get some and try it ?

[Guest]

Agree with Silv., MsPigeon, looks very promising.  

 

Can't quite follow the 'internal' bit though.  :-/

 

Dampness is said to inactivate it ... it is hygroscopic which means it attracts and 'sucks up' moisture. It also acts on the target creature by attacking its wax exoskeleton which leads to dehydration and death: so how does it remain active in the 'damp' gut? and if it does remain active, what stops it 'drying up' / harming the gut wall and its bacteria?

[Guest Silverwings]

carol , bruno , there putting this stuff in horse feed ? wonder if it works as a wormer ? dont think it will iritate the crop wall, could act more like a cleanser ? to remove harmfull bacteria ,bearing in mind it will move the good bacteria as well ? may have to  follow up with live yoghurt or actimel type stuff ?.......ray

[MsPigeon]

Well, I am starting by putting it in the feed in my feed barrels, not just the pigeon feed but also the chicken feed and goat grain, and canary seeds, as specified on: http:www.healthypigeons.com/D-EarthPage.html

as this will protect the feed from getting bugs as well. But this web site tells about its many uses for plants and animals:

http://www.dirtworks.net/DiatomaceousEarth.html

I don't know that one would be able to tell much about how it works on animals for some time. But I did have a jar of hemp seeds for my canaries that had worms growing in it. I added a little of the D-Earth and I just checked and there are no more live worms.

Carol

[Peckedhen]

Thanks for the link Carol,

 

It's great that it will kill slugs - they have been having a veritable feast in our garden, since I got the pigeons and stopped using slug pellets! >

[Guest]

I think you've stumbled upon a winner here, MsPigeon.  

 

Both websites give the basic guarantee that I look for in products for use around my pigeons - absolute safety, preferably without the use of harmful chemicals.

 

The 'feed grade' is especially helpful. If you use it as a dressing, you know that the birds are going to be 'in at it'. Using that particular grade covers you inside and out  - guaranteed.

 

Will be looking for a supplier and definitely going to try it out.  

 

Thanks again for the lead.    

 

 

[bill_bennie]

MsPigeon,,,,,please don't be in such a rush to use "Diatomaceous Earth".

I have been trying to find the info concerning this product all day because there is

some problems with it when not administered properly.

When I do find it I will post. In the mean time, if Dr.Gord Chalmers look's in he

may enlighten us to what the problems may be. It was discussed extensivley on

another site but I am unable to find it (yet). You must be very careful using it!!!!

 

 

Yours in the Sport - Bill.

[bewted]

re;diatemaceous earth                                if you use this product,it must be the fossilised sort ONLY,NO OTHER!!!!!!!          note,used for clarifiying beer,etc              if anyone knows where to buy it in small quantities,i would love to know in uk,,,,ted   see how many replies with answer to this query???????

[bill_bennie]

Ms.Pigeon, I found a web-site you might check out concerning Diatomaceous Earth.

Don't forget they are trying to sell this product, so all you get is the benefits. Nothing is said about the faults. This product can be "Deadly", especially in anyone's garden, or even down the drain. It cuts up the bugs pretty good.

Where does it end up and what effect does it have when it gets there? And you certainly don't want to breathe it in!!!!

Imagine if you will,,,,,walking on glass shards what it would do to you, so imagine what happens when it gets into a body??????? Your Lungs,Stomach etc.

http://www.bio-ag.com/products/feedsupplements/diatomaceous.html

 

P.S.....Handle with care.

Yours in the Sport - Bill.

[jimmy white]

i do notice that perma-gaurd d-20 diatomaceous earth contains 2 p.c. pyrethrins.

our ordinary household flyspray contains 0;28 p.c. pyrethrins  [tetramethrin]

it maybe a good thing, but, i really dont know, has anyone tried this?

[Guest shadow]

No and by what I have read on it will not be trying. Keep things as natural as possible and you can't go wrong

 

quality not quantity

[Guest]

Interesting thread and as always, good posts which make you stop and think!  

 

Previously, wondered on effect on pigeon's gut. Bill's use of the word 'glass' perhaps gives the wrong impression of what this stuff is. Its sand. Picked up a really interesting website - an on-line Encyclopedia - which may or may not calm fears on its use:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diatomaceous_earth#Safety_considerations

 

 

As I said, made me stop and think.     What's grit? Prized stuff is Oystershell - razor sharp pieces of marine life etc., etc.

 

So what happens to the hard grit the pigeons eat? Doesn't stay in the gizzard for ever and doesn't dissolve like the soft stuff. I've only occasionally seen my birds bring it up, usually just before feeding time, at most 3 tiny pieces of highly polished rounded stone.  

 

And that brings me nicely to another reference work I have: pigeons rid themselves of worms naturally. Often wondered how. Thought it was chemical, perhaps a gut bacteria secretion moving the eggs or the adults on? Beginning to wonder if this is actually another use the birds make of grit? After all, evolution wouldn't allow an animal that roots around the earth and therefore at risk of worm infestation, not to have a natural defense against becoming infested with worms..bird does this by eating grit which shreds them in the gut?

 

Food for further thought I hope.  ;D

 

 

[MsPigeon]

I have used DE, not the type with pyrethrins, the food grade type from our local health food store. Maybe it's the time of year, the damp air, but I have not found that it caused a dust after the initial mixing in the feed barrel or application to the loft floor. As Bill B pointed out it is like microscopic shards of glass to parasites and not good to breath.  :X But if I was going to worry about everything microscopic that I breath in the air, I might as well stop breathing.  ;D LOL It is a natural product and as Bruno suggested with the grit, this is something that wild birds and pigeons could find and pick at in the wild to naturally worm themselves. It should be used with caution, you don't want to kill good insects like honey bees and you should avoid inhaleing it.

Carol

[jimmy white]

carol,i was looking at the d.e with pyrethrins in it, and thought that was the reasons for not breathing it in. but after looking at all i could find on it,[ the food grade type]  i see that it has been given to many differant animals, including chickens and pigeons, but i would have to say i still would be apprehensive about it.on all the websites ive looked at, it says its perfectly safe,and natural , but, do not breath  it in, i find that a bit of a contradiction.the only thing i cant find out is" why" does anyone know? i would preffer to keep an open mind on the subject, till i found out more.

[Guest]

Jimmy, picked up the same 'warning'.... as with any dust / fine particle, it can be an irritant to the respiratory tract. But I think that it is more of a Health & Safety Data Sheet warning aimed at the  people who are exposed to very large quantities of this dust at their work- for example the DE production, bagging and loading lines.

 

Not taking anything away from the safety implications of DE, but in this respect it is no different to e.g. Colombine Floor White, which is also a fine powder. Crushed lime stone carries the same 'warning - can irritate the eyes and respiratory tract', and that is why Floor White comes with the instruction to 'brush it in' - although I suspect that that is more as an additional safeguard for the pigeon's health than ours.  

[Guest Silverwings]

going to try this on a couple of feral pigeons from the market ? remember the imortal words of that ace fancier  (James T Kirk ) on the starship enterprise ?  " To boldly go were no man as gone before " ?

[MsPigeon]

Right On Silverwings!!!!  ;D

[jimmy white]

good idea silver wings , worth a try anyway, lets know how you get on   :)

[MsPigeon]

I just spoke with a friend and neighbor. She is a vegetarian and very much into healthy alternatives. Her daughter is also a veterinarian. So anyway, I asked her if she had ever heard of and used DE. She immediately said DON'T BREATH IT!! She has asthma so she doesn't have it around. She said that the particles never break down, making it similar to breathing asbestos.

[Guest slugmonkey]

I dont know much about D.E I did get one guy in our club a couple of bags of though he uses it in his loft as a dressing I build swimming pools and come by it very cheaply

[Guest slugmonkey]

I also learned that D.E. is one of the main ingredients in sevin dust some guys use this for mites

[jimmy white]

IM AFRAID MS PIGEON , THATS   WHAT WAS EXACTLY ON MY MIND.  I HAD A FREIND DIE WITH ASBESTOSIS, 15 YEARS AFTER HE WORKED WITH IT, MIND YOU THATS NOT TO SAY D,E WOULD DO THE SAME THING, BUT I THINK I WOULD PREFER TO FIND OUT

[Guest]

I'm pleased with the thorough going-over of DE in this thread.  

 

One of the warnings for other than the feeding grade DE was that it could cause silicosis 'the silicon version of asbestosis'. According to the blurb the harmful stuff is removed from feeding grade... and anything that is fed to animals shouldn't have insecticide in it. Jimmy correctly pointed out that the other grades have insectide in them, but these are the natural pyrethrins from plants, which is 100x less toxic than the manufactured equivalent, pyrethroids, for example Ardap, which are especially toxic to fish.

 

I'm more concerned with the other insectide Slugmonkey posted - Sevin. Never heard of it. Discovered its main ingredient Carbaryl has been withdrawn by DEFRA as it has been proven to cause cancer in humans... I believe it was the principle treatment for head lice in children. Which brings me back to the current thread.  ;D

 

Safety seems to be relative. Compared to Product X, Product Y is safer. I believe feeding grade DE is far safer than any other insectide / wormer on the market. But I'd like to see more research results, especially the gut tissue samples. That's the only sure way of knowing DE has no 'side' effects - after all, we cannot see what is going on inside the pigeon. Might look OK on the outside but.........

[MsPigeon]

Bruno,

I did a web search and found that people are eating DE to cure a variety of ailments.

Carol