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Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped?


Guest Vic
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I will keep it quite short, but having been in consultation, with some vets over a year or two. I am led to believe that this is a serious, uncontrolable disease that can be within most of our birds without us knowing its  presence. The so called carriers, show no signs of sickness

  whatsoever, perfect looking, but pass it on when breeding commences.  This could even be part of the reason, why ybs are dropping like flies. Any comments most welcome.    

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Guest strapper
I will keep it quite short, but having been in consultation, with some vets over a year or two. I am led to believe that this is a serious, uncontrolable disease that can be within most of our birds without us knowing its  presence. The so called carriers, show no signs of sickness

  whatsoever, perfect looking, but pass it on when breeding commences.  This could even be part of the reason, why ybs are dropping like flies. Any comments most welcome.    

 

vic as u know this is a posh word for salmonella.

most will look at the name and think oh god wots that?

but its most probably visited most lofts over a period of time and treated for summut else.

i think there is a need to treat for it b4 breeding commences,along with other treatments given at that time of the year.

i believe rats and mice carry it and we all know how they get about so easily!

i think one way that it gets into the loft is by birds picking up outside the lofts where rats/mice have urinated there.

and how many of us allow our birds to do that?

 

 

 

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vic as u know this is a posh word for salmonella.

most will look at the name and think oh god wots that?

but its most probably visited most lofts over a period of time and treated for summut else.

i think there is a need to treat for it b4 breeding commences,along with other treatments given at that time of the year.

i believe rats and mice carry it and we all know how they get about so easily!

i think one way that it gets into the loft is by birds picking up outside the lofts where rats/mice have urinated there.

and how many of us allow our birds to do that?

 

 

 

If it is the fancy name for salmonella it is present in a lot of species including ourselves, there are test results that show it present in a lot places including hospitals and computer key boards.

Humans can catch it and be rid of it, they can also be carriers for life in some cases :-/

 

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when paratyphoid hits you can expect to loose many birds not many to start with but as time goes on you will find some more going down mostly it will hit the hens you can find them trailing a wing and going light some will die then you will go to the loft one day and for no reason find a cock dead that had been out flying the day before it seems to go on from season to season even in pigeons that dont fly out keep a eye out for rats, mice, check your feeding feeding in dry clean places clean or lofts that have deep litter it is all the same when it hits it is too late.

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Be wary also of wild birds. A few years ago I had about thirty tumblers. I was also very keen on making sure wild birds had plenty to eat. I fed wild birds in feeders in the garden. My pigeons picked around under the feeders and came down with salmonella. I am pretty certain they picked it up from the wild birds in this way. It killed a third of them. I still feed the wild birds but the feeders are nowhere near my loft. I am now extra vigilant and always keep pigeons away from any contact of any kind with wild birds.

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Hi

 

Is salmonella and Paratyphoid the same. I dont think so salmonella is the causitive agent and paratyphoid is the outcome. Pigeons have two varieties of salmonella both specific to pigeons. Once birds become carriers then a problem arises the only way to eradicate it is to cull what shows signs and we know this will not happen. Rats and mice have been around our birds for years and there is now way on this earth you can exclude mice from a pigeon loft unless you have a totally built in loft which would not be condusive to keeping pigeons. Something has changed this year that is for sure not too sure if all the birds lost this year are "sick" birds.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

If you watch Keeping pigeons healthy by Armand Scheers he states paratyphoid is a "Winter" disease hence why they are treated for salmonella before breeding. Dont forget Salmonella is a bacteria and the key is good sanitation and the best for this has to be Virkon S as it will destroy salmonella

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Guest strapper
Hi

 

Is salmonella and Paratyphoid the same. I dont think so salmonella is the causitive agent and paratyphoid is the outcome. Pigeons have two varieties of salmonella both specific to pigeons. Once birds become carriers then a problem arises the only way to eradicate it is to cull what shows signs and we know this will not happen. Rats and mice have been around our birds for years and there is now way on this earth you can exclude mice from a pigeon loft unless you have a totally built in loft which would not be condusive to keeping pigeons. Something has changed this year that is for sure not too sure if all the birds lost this year are "sick" birds.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

If you watch Keeping pigeons healthy by Armand Scheers he states paratyphoid is a "Winter" disease hence why they are treated for salmonella before breeding. Dont forget Salmonella is a bacteria and the key is good sanitation and the best for this has to be Virkon S as it will destroy salmonella

 

 

good product is virkon i use this myself....i spray it a few times a year throughout my lofts.

 

 

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can i add..some believe that giving probiotic yoghurt helps to prevent salmonella, it doesnt!

 

As I understand it, anything that contains "good bacteria" such as probiotic live yoghurt, needs to be stuffed into the birds big style.  This lines the gut with the good guys, sometimes multi layered, which stops the bad bacteria (salmonella), getting a hold.  This is why some people like to keep y/bs' on deep litter, cos' the droppings contain lots of good bacteria.  I also understand that some poultry men spray day old chicks with good bacteria, which is then pecked by the chicks, once again lining the gut.

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salmonella can affect pigeons in different ways. It can invade the intestines, the joints, organs in general, and the nervous system. It is the symptoms we can see when it has invaded a pigeons joints - causing inflamation lameness and drooping wings - which we describe as paratyphoid.

 

When these are the symtoms the disease is easy to identify. But if the disease takes any or all of the other possible courses it can be confused with a host of other pigeon illnesses.

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Avian salmonellosis is caused by a group of bacteria of

the genus salmonella. Approximately 2,300 different strains

of salmonellae have been identified, and these are placed

into groupings called “serovars” on the basis of their antigens

or substances that induce immune response by the host,

such as the production of specific antibody to the antigen.

Current taxonomic nomenclature considers the 2,300 different

serovars to be variants of two species,

http://www.nwhc.usgs.gov/publications/field_manual/chapter_9.pdf

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Good post Tony, a timely reminder that there is no such thing as 'a' anything, including salmonella, but many different strains of it, possibly ranging from safe to deadly.

 

And as with vaccination, a safe dose will immunise against deadly.

 

Much the same as e-coli. The one to bother about is 0157.

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I will keep it quite short, but having been in consultation, with some vets over a year or two. I am led to believe that this is a serious, uncontrolable disease that can be within most of our birds without us knowing its  presence. The so called carriers, show no signs of sickness

  whatsoever, perfect looking, but pass it on when breeding commences.  This could even be part of the reason, why ybs are dropping like flies. Any comments most welcome.    

 

having read all the very good posts on this, my beleive is that this desease [as in many deseases ,many types] is the most serious ,often ,unseen desease in pigeons , even a droppings test ,may not give you an accurate result . probably one of the few deseases that can even spread inside the egg, usually resulting in" dead in the shell" but some do hatch , these are actually born carriers , other cariers can be birds that have  contracted this desease , mostly due to mice and rats infestations , i,e a bird that may have a drooped wing [having no injury] just a classic example , where , im afraid  a lot of fanciers will swear blind "it must have hurt its wing " this bird ,if not put down ,should be thoroghly tested by a good avian vet ,,,however to go on to vics question ,, could this be the reason for yb losses in my opinion i would say this could be just one PART of it, as i think there are many reasons, but paratyphoid ,like many deseases will mutate  and change over time , and quite possibly play a PART in the loss in yb,s , in being a" serious and uncontrolable desease" my thoughts are, this can be controlled ,to a certain extent, by loft hygeine ,by having  birds tested on a regular basis , rather than be treated willy nilly , which will make any desease mutate,  and a far strickter " selection"made to pigeons in any loft .,,as far as yb losses are concerned my thoughts are there are many reasons and like a big jig saw puzzle ,this could be one part

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jimmy , very good point there ,( IN THE EGG ) dead in shell / black eggs , COCCI will also invade the forming egg if the count is big enough , first thing we think off is the old SAM & ELLA , when it could be cocci doing the dirty deed , the cocci opens the back door to to just about any bacterial infection going , when the count get's high , iam just going by what i have seen in my own loft over the last 25 odd year's ,( IB ) he may be able to put some flesh on the bones of this one

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Vic has raised this issue several times. You cannot attribute wholesale losses to a condition / disease / bacterial infection that you have not first established exists in the general racing pigeon population. I have not heard that racing pigeons are endemic carriers of salmonella and I would be very surprised if they were, because humans can catch it too, and it is a Notifiable disease. DEFRA and the Scottish, Welsh and Irish Animal Health Departments would be on it like a ton of bricks, especially if an outbreak occurred near any poultry farm. I am still awaiting a post from anyone giving current UK statistics of salmonella infections in racing pigeons, or stating categorically where in the UK and when these ‘repeated’ endemic outbreaks occurred.

 

Other issues raised in the thread also concern me. Forget ‘Salmonella’ and think instead about ‘disease’. We and are our pigeons are surrounded by potential disease-causing stuff 24/7. We have two things to protect us; our basic hygiene and our internal and external ‘skins’ which form a barrier shutting everything out.

 

So we keep ourselves ‘clean’, and our environment ‘clean’. There is also natural cleaners in the environment, and some live on our skins too. As long as there are enough of them there, and there is no break in the skin, we are safe. It is when a break occurs and this first line of defence is breached allowing anything into the bloodstream (and access to any part of the body) that disease is a real possibility.

 

So practice good hygiene, and help the pigeon maintain its immune system and it will do the rest. The gut wall is part of that immune system and one of the largest areas of internal skin. It is covered with mucous, and gazillions of bacteria which you want to flourish. Not only do they secrete natural antibiotics which kills other bacteria, they help in our and the birds' digestion. So the more the merrier because that will also crowd everything else out, and if it can’t get near the gut wall, it can’t get through and into the bloodstream and can't cause bother. Any antibiotic or antimicrobial (anything artificial we give to the birds to kill any form of life) will kill these 'friendly bacteria' in their zillions. On the other hand, give any probiotic including live yoghurt, and that will give them a boost. Think of a probiotic as a multi-vaccine, and consign antibiotic use in pigeons to history.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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can remember back to the time when paramyxo came to these shore think it was back 82/83 and channel racing got suspended through ,the then shu held a meeting in motherwell civic centre to discuss the problem of para and held a vote to make it compulsary any how the shu vet at the time was a think called a guy called macrae and he stated then that when pigeons take para then in 99% of cases salmonella/paratyphoid is present and explained that to keep para at bay we should vaccinate them so what happens to the salmonella at this point it dont just dissapear ,in my understanding of vaccination is it builds up anti bodies in the blood to enable the pigeon to fight it of dont mean to say it wont take and in a way that might not be visible to the naked eye and remember when a foreign body is given to any animal its own immune system starts to work and attack it leaving it vurnable to other diseases in my opinion salmonella ?? ;)

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All Good replies guys.  But no fancier anywhere, will ever stop rodents from having a free run during darkness, be it within or outside your  lofts, they are nocturnal afterall, and do their business  during the night.  Will come back later, CHAMPIONSHIP HIGHLIGHTS LOOMING!    

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