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Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped? Rate Topic: -----

#41 GuestVic_*

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 15:50 PM

Yes! Plenty of good comments, But it seems to me, that most of us of, along with the vets don't really know the score.  I may be well out, but I think this all started years ago when we succombed to the MAFF and started the vaccination procedure. I also believe that in the last few years, this Paratyphoid, whatever, call it what you like! has moved to an area that affects the very essence of pigeon racing. THE ABILITY TO HOME. Never, have I ever witnessed so many losses, as the majority of fanciers suffered this year, cosidering the weather was on our side most weeks.  Why don't pigeons turn up next day as  they did in the past? Simply because they have lost  the magical "Who knows What?"  that makes them racing pigeons. This is my opinion, and I could be miles away from the true cause. Could in the end to have something to do with electronics. BUT MARK VICS WORDS, THERE IS SOMETHING ALIEN WITHIN MOST OF OUR BIRDS THESE DAYS. SAD BUT TRUE, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

#42 User is offline   jimmy white 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 20:46 PM

in reading vic,s last post i must say i agree with him entirely,, maybe harsh sounding but nevertheless true ,,most ordinary vets know  less than some   fanciers about pigeons , and ,really just make money by giving a prescription for x amount of birds with x amount of medicine [usually a common broad spectrum antibiotic] any pigeon fancier must deal with a really top avian vet with pigeon experience
i also beleive a lot of problems have arisen since we started paramyxo vaccination [and there seems no going back the way now]
this paratypoid [allthough been with us a long time] with lots of new medication and the paramyxo vacine ,,,,to my mind , would have to have mutated in some way or form through the years ,, god only knows of which form.or even forms,,," their ability to home "or their magical" whatever" that makes them into racing pigeons , has most definately diminished in the last 20 years ,and more apparent in the last 5 years but,,,still getting worse year by year, i certainly dont know the answer ,, i still feel like its a big jigsaw puzzle , we can fit some small peices together as to some reasons , but feel theres a big chunk missing alltogether ,and if we dont find it , i just wonder what will become of pigeon racing in 20 years time,,,,,and have to repeat,,"  but mark  vics words , there is something alien within most of our birds  these days"

#43 User is offline   Roland 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 21:12 PM

Never be eradicated. Like the articles I posted before... Fanciers will continue to treat for Ecoli, or anything else willy nilly. So that in it's self means that your birds will often be in contact with other birds that are infected.
Now, again, a mild infection (Like a Jab) often means that that bird won't show any ill effects, but could well soon be a carrier... Even again.
Pigeons Interests ... before Fanciers ego's!

#44 User is offline   Roland 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 21:16 PM

frank-123 said:

i remember a few pigeon forums at the start of this breeding season saying there young were dying in the nest blaming the nest felts as the cause
maybe it was paratyphoid/salmonella as the cause


How very true.... And I remember a few shooting me down for suggesting such a thing! But that of course meant I can back stronger.
Indeed I was side swiped, even had a one or two stating reasons why I was talking rot and held it to ridicule. I email the persons(s) seeking advice directly and voiced my views.
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#45 User is offline   Larry Lucas 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 21:22 PM

IB said:

Rather a sweeping statement that, Larry, given that salmonella generally is considered a pathogen, and a zoonotic one at that (ie an animal disease that can also cause illness and death in humans).

It is also considered not to be a normal gut inhabitant, so  given your statement, why e.g. have independant droppings tests of my own birds not shown salmonella infection? Is there a specific test for it? I also note no UK Pigeon Press adverts specifically offering salmonella tests for racing pigeons, due perhaps to there being no market need for it in the first place?

I do not recall its widespread presence in pigeons ever being reported on this Site either, and given that it is zoonotic, no widespread reports of pigeon fanciers becoming ill with it either, (I would expect at least a few cases) and these cases in turn (because they were zoonotic) would be picked up by our UK Health Protection Agencies, these in turn reporting to and sparking action by UK Animal Health Agencies, DEFRA etc.

Given that droppings may harbour a dangerous pathogen, what safety measures would you suggest for those on here who do their own droppings tests?


IB, that is the statement to me by the head avian veterinarian at the University of Minnesota. That is his observation about the matter in the USA and pigeons. Perhaps it is different in the UK, but I doubt it. I would grant that an exception might exist for someone who has eliminated the bacteria from his/her loft; keeps biohazard protocol; does not race; does not introduce new pigeons, and does not allow anyone into their lofts who keeps pigeons. If you race the bacteria will be introduced to your loft at some point -- but it is probably already there is a latent state. Unless someone develops a super pigeon, every loft will deal with cases of paratyphoid, herpes virus, adenovirus, etc., etc. if they race pigeons. Regarding your droppings test: such a test is better than nothing, but it will only show the bacteria when the birds are actually shedding the microorganism due to stress, other illness, etc. Post-mortem is much more accurate as is blood test when illness is evident.

I find it very odd that paratyphoid is a reportable disease in the UK as Salmonella typhimurium var. copenhagen is not transmittable to humans under normal circumstances. The association of avian veterinarians in the USA only notes one bacterium common to pigeons that holds significant potential to infect humans: Chlamydia. Certain avian flu viruses hold the potential, but it has been demonstrated by double blind studies at the University of California Davis that pigeons are not a good vector for most avian flu viruses. Perhaps you breed superbugs in the UK! ;D ;D On the precautionary side as you note above, I would suggest that any fancier wear a mask in their loft no matter how healthy their pigeons may be due to problems associated with pigeon dust (pigeon fancier's lung). I don't think extreme precautionary measures are necessary as pigeons do not shed the bacterium continuously, and even when they do Salmonella typhimurium var. copenhagen is not a significant health risk to humans.

Vic, I would disagree that the problem was introduced by vaccinating as the problem preceded any vaccination mandate. If you want to find a culprit on which to pin problems like ybs look to Circovirus I and II.



#46 User is offline   Tony C 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 21:26 PM

frank-123 said:

i remember a few pigeon forums at the start of this breeding season saying there young were dying in the nest blaming the nest felts as the cause
maybe it was paratyphoid/salmonella as the cause


It was the black nestfelts, no doubt about it.
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#47 User is offline   Larry Lucas 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 21:34 PM

jimmy white said:

with due respect larry, this sounds good in eliminating the carrier state of paratyphoid in a pigeon [which could save a lot of pigeons and lesson a problem], but allthough my  question might seem  a bit silly, [its not meant to be :)] could this carrier state in the pigeon,, now [say] cured by baytrill and vaccination [sal-bac] , become a carrier again ?? at any other time ,,,,,  or once being a carrier and cured , will be immune to catching this again ??


Jimmy, yes, any pigeon that is cured of the carrier state can be re-introduced to Salmonella if an annual booster vaccination is not done after the initial cure, or if the vaccine does not work. It is not a 100 percent guarantee, but it is more effective than anything else that is currently available. Quite a few years ago I inadvertently introduced a paratyphoid infection into my lofts when I brought in some new breeders. They had been vaccinated for everything (so I was told) so after a few weeks I introduced them to the breeding loft. They looked picture perfect. Guess what happened during the second round of eggs?. So I ran the entire flock through the process again. These days any new bird to my loft is quarantined, treated for 14 days with Baytril and vaccinated no matter who I get the bird from. No problems since. Works for me, anyway. Others do it differently.

#48 User is offline   Tony C 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 21:55 PM

The bit I cant get my head around is a carrier must have built up antibodies not to succumb to the full blown effects of Paratyphoid, by giving it a course of Baytril the Paratyphoid will be eliminated from the pigeon but surly the antibodies will remain. So my question is why vaccinate as the antibodies to fight this are already in place. :-/
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#49 User is offline   Larry Lucas 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 22:01 PM

Tony C said:

The bit I cant get my head around is a carrier must have built up antibodies not to succumb to the full blown effects of Paratyphoid, by giving it a course of Baytril the Paratyphoid will be eliminated from the pigeon but surly the antibodies will remain. So my question is why vaccinate as the antibodies to fight this are already in place. :-/


The antibodies in some pigeons can help them hold their own potential infection at bay, but the antibodies cannot prevent the carrier from shedding the bacteria. Not all exposed pigeons become carriers, but a bird is a carrier will infect other pigeons at some point. It seems to happen most often during the second round of eggs during breeding season.

#50 User is offline   Tony C 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 22:19 PM

Am I right in thinking that by vaccinating your actually introducing a small enough dose of Paratyphoid into the pigeon to stimulates the body into producing antibodies to fight it off should it come into contact with it at a later date. A carrier pigeon will already have these antibodies so once the course of Baytril has done its work and rid the body of Paratyphoid I cant see whats to be gained by vaccinating. The antibodies are already in place.
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#51 User is offline   jimmy white 

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Posted 19 September 2008 - 22:19 PM

i thank you larry most sincerely for your honest answer , and your most valuable and  interesting posts,, however  ;D [you will be calling me a pest now ;D] again with due respect , in reading of one of your recent postings on this subject,  could it be possible that by injecting with paramyxo vaccine  without changing the needles per bird , as a lot of fanciers do,, that this indeed could spread any paratyphoid that may be lurking ? then rather than say, since weve been vaccinating for paramyxo virus, weve found something amiss with the birds ,,it could be said that a lot of us have been injecting wrongly ,i,e by using the same needle too many times ,thus, spreading any paratyphoid that may be lurking ??

#52 User is offline   Larry Lucas 

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 01:27 AM

jimmy white said:

i thank you larry most sincerely for your honest answer , and your most valuable and  interesting posts,, however  ;D [you will be calling me a pest now ;D] again with due respect , in reading of one of your recent postings on this subject,  could it be possible that by injecting with paramyxo vaccine  without changing the needles per bird , as a lot of fanciers do,, that this indeed could spread any paratyphoid that may be lurking ? then rather than say, since weve been vaccinating for paramyxo virus, weve found something amiss with the birds ,,it could be said that a lot of us have been injecting wrongly ,i,e by using the same needle too many times ,thus, spreading any paratyphoid that may be lurking ??


Jimmy, you are quite right! Of course we all do this, don't we? I wipe the needle with a cotton ball drenched in alcohol between jabs or slosh it around in a container of alcohol between birds, but you are dead right -- it would be best to use a different needle with each bird. But the last time I vaccinated it was over 100 birds -- seemed to take forever.

#53 User is offline   johnny11 

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 09:13 AM

Hi Guys in mice it has been found by reducing immunoglobulin A (used in the immune system) salmonella will take hold and invade the system. by increasing the amount of IgA in the system you reduce the amount of salmonella in the gut. Therefore it seems to me that it is good practice to sterilise utensils especially the drinker with virkon s and then put as much pre and probiotics into your birsd as possible if you want to go down the "natural route"

cannot say IgA has a role in poultry but it does in mice.

Another thought on vaccination. A vaccine is virus specific ie will only attack what it had=s been vaccinated for. As two strains exist in pigeons should you not vaccinate with two vaccines????

John

#54 User is offline   jimmy white 

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 12:16 PM

Larry Lucas said:

Jimmy, you are quite right! Of course we all do this, don't we? I wipe the needle with a cotton ball drenched in alcohol between jabs or slosh it around in a container of alcohol between birds, but you are dead right -- it would be best to use a different needle with each bird. But the last time I vaccinated it was over 100 birds -- seemed to take forever.


brilliant ,,answer staring us in the face :)  thanks a lot larry :)

#55 GuestVic_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 13:07 PM

jimmy white said:

brilliant ,,answer staring us in the face :)  thanks a lot larry :)
  Yes Jimmie! lol  
But Dr Larry knows what the game's all about. He's always there to help the pigeon flock out, on most issues, a talented man indeed.  But, Let's face it! These pigeon sicknesses are increasing as time goes on, baffling us all and the vets, who these days,  seem to have less of a clue than their veterinary  counterparts of yesteryear.  I have never seen so many conlficting views from all of us, on any one subject for quite some time. Although I'm not disrespecting any postings, I am sure you will see what Vic is getting at.




#56 User is offline   jimmy white 

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 13:28 PM

i most certainly do vic  :)

#57 GuestIB_*

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Posted 20 September 2008 - 20:58 PM

Larry Lucas said:

IB, that is the statement to me by the head avian veterinarian at the University of Minnesota. That is his observation about the matter in the USA and pigeons. Perhaps it is different in the UK, but I doubt it. I would grant that an exception might exist for someone who has eliminated the bacteria from his/her loft; keeps biohazard protocol; does not race; does not introduce new pigeons, and does not allow anyone into their lofts who keeps pigeons. If you race the bacteria will be introduced to your loft at some point -- but it is probably already there is a latent state. Unless someone develops a super pigeon, every loft will deal with cases of paratyphoid, herpes virus, adenovirus, etc., etc. if they race pigeons. Regarding your droppings test: such a test is better than nothing, but it will only show the bacteria when the birds are actually shedding the microorganism due to stress, other illness, etc. Post-mortem is much more accurate as is blood test when illness is evident.

I find it very odd that paratyphoid is a reportable disease in the UK as Salmonella typhimurium var. copenhagen is not transmittable to humans under normal circumstances. The association of avian veterinarians in the USA only notes one bacterium common to pigeons that holds significant potential to infect humans: Chlamydia. Certain avian flu viruses hold the potential, but it has been demonstrated by double blind studies at the University of California Davis that pigeons are not a good vector for most avian flu viruses. Perhaps you breed superbugs in the UK! ;D ;D On the precautionary side as you note above, I would suggest that any fancier wear a mask in their loft no matter how healthy their pigeons may be due to problems associated with pigeon dust (pigeon fancier's lung). I don't think extreme precautionary measures are necessary as pigeons do not shed the bacterium continuously, and even when they do Salmonella typhimurium var. copenhagen is not a significant health risk to humans.


Irrespective of who the statement is attributed to Larry, it cannot be evidence-based. As far as I am aware, there has never been a UK lofts survey on sufficient scale to reach a conclusion that all pigeons are infected.

I have no information that Salmonella typhimurium var. copenhagen can't be transmitted to humans. According to the UK Health Protection Agency, of the top 15 Salmonella serotypes causing Human infection reported Worldwide in Q3, 2006  S. typhimurium ranked second at 4,537 cases, 13% of total. S. enteritidis  was tops at 23,531, 68%.  By contrast the third numbered only 378 cases, 1% of the total.

http://www.hpa.org.u...C/1194947346953

Salmonella in food animals is a reportable disease here. According to the UK Health Protection Agency, S. typhimurium ranked top of serotypes reported twice or more as causing Human infection in England and Wales, Q1, 2005. So Typhimurium is quite significant here, and its presence in Humans would mean a multi-agency investigation to identify the source of the original infection. If racing pigeon lofts are as you have inferred, vectors of this disease, then probabilities would suggest pigeon fanciers would figure in those infection statistics and their lofts would have been identified as the source in at least some of the cases.  I have not heard of any.  

http://www.hpa.org.u...p=1192454969657

When developing amino acid Assays to detect and identify specific Salmonella strains infecting Humans, S. typhimurium was included and around 57 different strains of it are mentioned, though none by name so S. typhimurium var. copenhagen cannot be discounted as being one of them:-

A previous study of ..  among 7 Typhimurium strains .. 6 full S. Typhimurium ..  a further 20 S. Typhimurium strains were sequenced .. . Sequence type "Typhimurium_a" was detected in 18 strains .. Sequence type "Typhimurium_b" was detected in 4 strains …. Sequence type "Typhimurium_c" .. was found in 2 strains: 571896 and 571913. Strains 571896 and 571913 were phage type DT104

http://www.pubmedcen...bmedid=15298703

DT104 is the S. typhimurium strain which is resistant to some of our newest classes of antibiotics. Baytril is one of these, yet has been recommended on this thread be given (blind?) prior to a paratyphoid vaccine. Baytril’s manufacturers Beyers are quite categoric that this practice is wrong – they go as far as to say that if it is suspected DT104 infection is present, then do not attempt a cure with Baytril - the flock has to be culled out.

http://www.poultry.b..._E_Internet.pdf




#58 User is offline   Larry Lucas 

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 00:23 AM

Quote

Irrespective of who the statement is attributed to Larry, it cannot be evidence-based. As far as I am aware, there has never been a UK lofts survey on sufficient scale to reach a conclusion that all pigeons are infected.

I have no information that Salmonella typhimurium var. copenhagen can't be transmitted to humans. According to the UK Health Protection Agency, of the top 15 Salmonella serotypes causing Human infection reported Worldwide in Q3, 2006  S. typhimurium ranked second at 4,537 cases, 13% of total. S. enteritidis  was tops at 23,531, 68%.  By contrast the third numbered only 378 cases, 1% of the total.


The man is one of the leading avian veterinarians in North America. Regardless, if you will do a little more reading you will discover within ST there are many sub-strains. For our purposes statistics from the broad category of S. typhimurium are not really applicable, only that of v. Copenhagen.

The last article I read indicated from 1982 to 1996 only 715 cases of ST in humans were reported in the USA, of those only a few were var. Copenhagen and these were associated with other more significant health issues such as very low IgA or other immune system disorders.  But for the sake of argument if all infections from ST including v. C are averaged at 51 per year for those years, I think you will agree that out of 265 million people in 1996 the infection rate is not even close to being statistically significant. I believe more people were struck by lightening in 1996 than were infected by all known strains of ST. If we only look at v. C it becomes silly. Unless there is an odd situation in the UK I suspect the statical significance ratio applies there as well.

You will note that I previously wrote, "under normal circumstances" var. Copenhagen is not transmittable. If one has significant health issues associated with the immune system it is not wise to keep pigeons or any other animal, for that matter. The whole matter is not a reportable issue here and no doubt will remain that way.

On the matter of Baytril: if you search what I have posted here, on Pigeon Chat and Pipa, you will find that I normally state (but did not here) that blind treatment with antibiotics is normally a bad idea and that an antibiotic screening by a lab is preferable. In this case the strain of ST v. C that is resistant to Baytril is not widespread and treating for a full fourteen days will not pose a problem as it is under-treatment that significantly contributes to the build-up of specific antibiotic resistance. If one does not have access to a lab or a competent avian vet and one's birds display all the standard symptoms of a full-blown paratyphoid infection, it is best to "blind" treat with the product that holds the highest level of potential to resolve the issue -- in this case, Baytril. My veterinarian advised me to treat all new pigeons to my loft with the 14 days of Baytril and vaccination on the 7th day -- without bothering with labs. Given his expertise in the field, that is precisely what I do. Just another opinion, and I am not suggesting anyone violate laws within your own country or follow veterinary practice that is not acknowledged by animal medical practices in your own country.

#59 GuestIB_*

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 05:24 AM

Tony C said:

Am I right in thinking that by vaccinating your actually introducing a small enough dose of Paratyphoid into the pigeon to stimulates the body into producing antibodies to fight it off should it come into contact with it at a later date. A carrier pigeon will already have these antibodies so once the course of Baytril has done its work and rid the body of Paratyphoid I cant see whats to be gained by vaccinating. The antibodies are already in place.


Another lone voice in the wilderness, Tony.  :) I believe you are spot-on in your thinking, because we already have a vaccination 'warning' that we should be reading every year that features roughly the same circumstances - Paramyxo vaccine and maternal antibodies - and Colombovac's instruction not to vaccinate youngsters under 3 weeks old because the presence of existing antibodies will prevent the vaccine taking hold.

Once challenged, the bird will have both antibodies and more importantly, an immune memory which means that it will mount an enhanced reponse to that particular organism the next time it meets it. This theory that Baytril will clear existing paratyphoid and vaccination will render the bird immune to further attacks therefore fails 'the basic biology test'. As you say, if the bird already has been exposed to paratyphoid, then it already has the antibodies and the immune memory to handle another paratyphoid attack, and vaccination is therefore a complete waste of time and money.

Johny11 mentioned Immunoglobulins. These are antibodies and the pigeon has 3 types: IgA, IgY and IgM. Sufficient to say that all of them are passed by the hen to her youngsters in her egg, IgY in the yolk, and the others in the 'white'.  IgA is also passed by both parents in their crop milk. IgA is present in all the bird's secretions e.g. the tears, saliva and all the mucous linings of all the various membranes. Larry Lucas mentioned Avian flu; according to Dr Erhardt Kaleta, advisor to German Homing Union, IgA kills that virus too and the pigeon having it within its first line of defence is probably one of the main reasons for its resistance to AI.

And then we come to the 'carrier' state. Well the first theory that goes 'pop' must be the carrier responsible for dead in shell. If the hen is a paratyphoid carrier and immune to the disease, then she is also passing on antibodies to protect both her egg and her youngster against it.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the 'carrier state', but I believe we do already have at least 2 'carrier' states in pigeons that are actually recommended by vets. Both of them have been mentioned many times on the forum: trichomonas and cocci. A background presence of these organisms keeps the immune system fettled and is the equivalent of vaccinating the pigeon against more serious strains,  and so their presence is both harmless to the bird and prevents full-blown disease.

So the question is: is the same true of salmonella?

  






#60 User is offline   Larry Lucas 

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Posted 21 September 2008 - 19:38 PM

IB said:

Another lone voice in the wilderness, Tony.  :) I believe you are spot-on in your thinking, because we already have a vaccination 'warning' that we should be reading every year that features roughly the same circumstances - Paramyxo vaccine and maternal antibodies - and Colombovac's instruction not to vaccinate youngsters under 3 weeks old because the presence of existing antibodies will prevent the vaccine taking hold.

Once challenged, the bird will have both antibodies and more importantly, an immune memory which means that it will mount an enhanced reponse to that particular organism the next time it meets it. This theory that Baytril will clear existing paratyphoid and vaccination will render the bird immune to further attacks therefore fails 'the basic biology test'. As you say, if the bird already has been exposed to paratyphoid, then it already has the antibodies and the immune memory to handle another paratyphoid attack, and vaccination is therefore a complete waste of time and money.

Johny11 mentioned Immunoglobulins. These are antibodies and the pigeon has 3 types: IgA, IgY and IgM. Sufficient to say that all of them are passed by the hen to her youngsters in her egg, IgY in the yolk, and the others in the 'white'.  IgA is also passed by both parents in their crop milk. IgA is present in all the bird's secretions e.g. the tears, saliva and all the mucous linings of all the various membranes. Larry Lucas mentioned Avian flu; according to Dr Erhardt Kaleta, advisor to German Homing Union, IgA kills that virus too and the pigeon having it within its first line of defence is probably one of the main reasons for its resistance to AI.

And then we come to the 'carrier' state. Well the first theory that goes 'pop' must be the carrier responsible for dead in shell. If the hen is a paratyphoid carrier and immune to the disease, then she is also passing on antibodies to protect both her egg and her youngster against it.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of the 'carrier state', but I believe we do already have at least 2 'carrier' states in pigeons that are actually recommended by vets. Both of them have been mentioned many times on the forum: trichomonas and cocci. A background presence of these organisms keeps the immune system fettled and is the equivalent of vaccinating the pigeon against more serious strains,  and so their presence is both harmless to the bird and prevents full-blown disease.

So the question is: is the same true of salmonella?


Actually, current recommendation is for birds to be vaccinated for Paramyxo while still in the nest because of the pandemic nature of Circovirus. Vaccination in the nest is not recommended for Paratyphoid as the vaccine is not as benign. Manufacturers at times offer label advice (for that is what it is) to cover themselves legally -- not necessarily offering the best medical procedure in that label advice. Fact. Ask any practicing veterinarian. And, with respect, your observations about antibodies and subsequent challenge related to ST v. C misses the point. In the case of ST v. C it does not matter that antibodies are developed after exposure: what matters is that many of those same birds with those antibodies do indeed become carriers/hosts of the bacteria. Much like herpes virus in humans, it goes dormant at the cellular level only to surface again when the bird is stressed in some manner. They will not show overt signs of the disease, but they will shed the bacteria through feces and mucosal tissues infecting other birds, often resulting in septacemia in the younger pigeons and in a few older birds -- especially when Circovirus is also present, which these days must always be considered as part of the analysis.

Your observation that eliminating a carrier state fails "basic biology" is misplaced as it does not take into account the manner in which ST bacteria function after the bird is initially challenged. A kind of ad hominum approach to bacteriology in this case would be a mistake. The process of using Baytril (Enrofloxacin) to clear the carrier state of ST v. C has been proven repeatedly in clinical and ad hoc studies. While this procedure does not carry a 100% guarantee, it is effective. A simple Google search will turn up more than a few published studies if you are interested and do not have access to journals in a university veterinary library. Or email Dr. Gordon Chalmers in Canada, Dr. Wim Peters in South Africa, or Dr. Rob Marshall in Australia. They probably won't mind answering your questions about ST, the carrier state, and the process I have described.

For what it is worth.



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