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Paratyphoid! Can it be stopped? Rate Topic: -----

#1 GuestVic_*

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 21:26 PM

I will keep it quite short, but having been in consultation, with some vets over a year or two. I am led to believe that this is a serious, uncontrolable disease that can be within most of our birds without us knowing its  presence. The so called carriers, show no signs of sickness
  whatsoever, perfect looking, but pass it on when breeding commences.  This could even be part of the reason, why ybs are dropping like flies. Any comments most welcome.    

#2 User is offline   just ask me 

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 21:34 PM

have said this lots before i put it down to the main reason for the loss of birds some reckon it can be spotted but i think it could be a secondary infection[loss for a better word] think it can be vacinatted againist

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 21:36 PM

Vic said:

I will keep it quite short, but having been in consultation, with some vets over a year or two. I am led to believe that this is a serious, uncontrolable disease that can be within most of our birds without us knowing its  presence. The so called carriers, show no signs of sickness
  whatsoever, perfect looking, but pass it on when breeding commences.  This could even be part of the reason, why ybs are dropping like flies. Any comments most welcome.    


vic as u know this is a posh word for salmonella.
most will look at the name and think oh god wots that?
but its most probably visited most lofts over a period of time and treated for summut else.
i think there is a need to treat for it b4 breeding commences,along with other treatments given at that time of the year.
i believe rats and mice carry it and we all know how they get about so easily!
i think one way that it gets into the loft is by birds picking up outside the lofts where rats/mice have urinated there.
and how many of us allow our birds to do that?



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#4 User is offline   frank1 

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 21:52 PM

sal-bac is a vaccine for parataphoid and poeple are saying it does the trick

#5 User is offline   DOVEScot 

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Posted 15 September 2008 - 22:57 PM

strapper said:

vic as u know this is a posh word for salmonella.
most will look at the name and think oh god wots that?
but its most probably visited most lofts over a period of time and treated for summut else.
i think there is a need to treat for it b4 breeding commences,along with other treatments given at that time of the year.
i believe rats and mice carry it and we all know how they get about so easily!
i think one way that it gets into the loft is by birds picking up outside the lofts where rats/mice have urinated there.
and how many of us allow our birds to do that?


If it is the fancy name for salmonella it is present in a lot of species including ourselves, there are test results that show it present in a lot places including hospitals and computer key boards.
Humans can catch it and be rid of it, they can also be carriers for life in some cases :-/

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#6 User is offline   blackswan 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 06:40 AM

when paratyphoid hits you can expect to loose many birds not many to start with but as time goes on you will find some more going down mostly it will hit the hens you can find them trailing a wing and going light some will die then you will go to the loft one day and for no reason find a cock dead that had been out flying the day before it seems to go on from season to season even in pigeons that dont fly out keep a eye out for rats, mice, check your feeding feeding in dry clean places clean or lofts that have deep litter it is all the same when it hits it is too late.

#7 User is offline   mark 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:07 AM

i think it is best to keep all food in big plastic or metal bins as rats and mice are everywhere.

#8 User is offline   tomm1e 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:20 AM

Be wary also of wild birds. A few years ago I had about thirty tumblers. I was also very keen on making sure wild birds had plenty to eat. I fed wild birds in feeders in the garden. My pigeons picked around under the feeders and came down with salmonella. I am pretty certain they picked it up from the wild birds in this way. It killed a third of them. I still feed the wild birds but the feeders are nowhere near my loft. I am now extra vigilant and always keep pigeons away from any contact of any kind with wild birds.

#9 User is offline   strapper 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:23 AM

can i add..some believe that giving probiotic yoghurt helps to prevent salmonella, it doesnt!

......paul...              
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#10 User is offline   johnny11 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:26 AM

Hi

Is salmonella and Paratyphoid the same. I dont think so salmonella is the causitive agent and paratyphoid is the outcome. Pigeons have two varieties of salmonella both specific to pigeons. Once birds become carriers then a problem arises the only way to eradicate it is to cull what shows signs and we know this will not happen. Rats and mice have been around our birds for years and there is now way on this earth you can exclude mice from a pigeon loft unless you have a totally built in loft which would not be condusive to keeping pigeons. Something has changed this year that is for sure not too sure if all the birds lost this year are "sick" birds.

Just my thoughts.

If you watch Keeping pigeons healthy by Armand Scheers he states paratyphoid is a "Winter" disease hence why they are treated for salmonella before breeding. Dont forget Salmonella is a bacteria and the key is good sanitation and the best for this has to be Virkon S as it will destroy salmonella

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:28 AM

I have seen pigeons treated and vaccinated (twice) against parathyphoid still contract it months later.
Signs to look for are
1. Bad moult blood quills
2. Bad Hatch, dead in shell, babies dying in nest.
3. Dropped floppy wing.

Only one cure for parathyphoid i'm afraid imo

#12 User is offline   strapper 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:35 AM

johnny11 said:

Hi

Is salmonella and Paratyphoid the same. I dont think so salmonella is the causitive agent and paratyphoid is the outcome. Pigeons have two varieties of salmonella both specific to pigeons. Once birds become carriers then a problem arises the only way to eradicate it is to cull what shows signs and we know this will not happen. Rats and mice have been around our birds for years and there is now way on this earth you can exclude mice from a pigeon loft unless you have a totally built in loft which would not be condusive to keeping pigeons. Something has changed this year that is for sure not too sure if all the birds lost this year are "sick" birds.

Just my thoughts.

If you watch Keeping pigeons healthy by Armand Scheers he states paratyphoid is a "Winter" disease hence why they are treated for salmonella before breeding. Dont forget Salmonella is a bacteria and the key is good sanitation and the best for this has to be Virkon S as it will destroy salmonella



good product is virkon i use this myself....i spray it a few times a year throughout my lofts.


......paul...              
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#13 User is offline   hepste 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:38 AM

strapper said:

can i add..some believe that giving probiotic yoghurt helps to prevent salmonella, it doesnt!


As I understand it, anything that contains "good bacteria" such as probiotic live yoghurt, needs to be stuffed into the birds big style.  This lines the gut with the good guys, sometimes multi layered, which stops the bad bacteria (salmonella), getting a hold.  This is why some people like to keep y/bs' on deep litter, cos' the droppings contain lots of good bacteria.  I also understand that some poultry men spray day old chicks with good bacteria, which is then pecked by the chicks, once again lining the gut.

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:38 AM

just remembered...salmonella has similar symptoms to paramyxo.,...as discussed in a recent post on this site.
......paul...              
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#15 User is offline   tomm1e 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:44 AM

salmonella can affect pigeons in different ways. It can invade the intestines, the joints, organs in general, and the nervous system. It is the symptoms we can see when it has invaded a pigeons joints - causing inflamation lameness and drooping wings - which we describe as paratyphoid.

When these are the symtoms the disease is easy to identify. But if the disease takes any or all of the other possible courses it can be confused with a host of other pigeon illnesses.

#16 User is offline   Tony C 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 08:51 AM

Avian salmonellosis is caused by a group of bacteria of
the genus salmonella. Approximately 2,300 different strains
of salmonellae have been identified, and these are placed
into groupings called serovars on the basis of their antigens
or substances that induce immune response by the host,
such as the production of specific antibody to the antigen.
Current taxonomic nomenclature considers the 2,300 different
serovars to be variants of two species,

http://www.nwhc.usgs...l/chapter_9.pdf
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#17 GuestIB_*

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 09:20 AM

Good post Tony, a timely reminder that there is no such thing as 'a' anything, including salmonella, but many different strains of it, possibly ranging from safe to deadly.

And as with vaccination, a safe dose will immunise against deadly.

Much the same as e-coli. The one to bother about is 0157.

#18 User is offline   jimmy white 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 11:41 AM

Vic said:

I will keep it quite short, but having been in consultation, with some vets over a year or two. I am led to believe that this is a serious, uncontrolable disease that can be within most of our birds without us knowing its  presence. The so called carriers, show no signs of sickness
  whatsoever, perfect looking, but pass it on when breeding commences.  This could even be part of the reason, why ybs are dropping like flies. Any comments most welcome.    


having read all the very good posts on this, my beleive is that this desease [as in many deseases ,many types] is the most serious ,often ,unseen desease in pigeons , even a droppings test ,may not give you an accurate result . probably one of the few deseases that can even spread inside the egg, usually resulting in" dead in the shell" but some do hatch , these are actually born carriers , other cariers can be birds that have  contracted this desease , mostly due to mice and rats infestations , i,e a bird that may have a drooped wing [having no injury] just a classic example , where , im afraid  a lot of fanciers will swear blind "it must have hurt its wing " this bird ,if not put down ,should be thoroghly tested by a good avian vet ,,,however to go on to vics question ,, could this be the reason for yb losses in my opinion i would say this could be just one PART of it, as i think there are many reasons, but paratyphoid ,like many deseases will mutate  and change over time , and quite possibly play a PART in the loss in yb,s , in being a" serious and uncontrolable desease" my thoughts are, this can be controlled ,to a certain extent, by loft hygeine ,by having  birds tested on a regular basis , rather than be treated willy nilly , which will make any desease mutate,  and a far strickter " selection"made to pigeons in any loft .,,as far as yb losses are concerned my thoughts are there are many reasons and like a big jig saw puzzle ,this could be one part

#19 User is offline   ch pied 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 12:48 PM

jimmy , very good point there ,( IN THE EGG ) dead in shell / black eggs , COCCI will also invade the forming egg if the count is big enough , first thing we think off is the old SAM & ELLA , when it could be cocci doing the dirty deed , the cocci opens the back door to to just about any bacterial infection going , when the count get's high , iam just going by what i have seen in my own loft over the last 25 odd year's ,( IB ) he may be able to put some flesh on the bones of this one
                                    

              

#20 User is offline   johnny11 

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Posted 16 September 2008 - 13:40 PM

Strptococcus will also cause death inside the egg. But how many report a poor hatch and then still lose lots of young birds?

John

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