JohnQuinn Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 No matter where you look these days all you read about are horrendous losses and fanciers getting wiped out of their Ybs in a matter of two or three races. So is it time to stop racing them, even for two or three years to give them the opportunity to mature and a better chance in life ?? And give us a clearer idea if they get to mature into yearlings they have a better chance to escape the talons of predators. Would this impact on the number of raptors surviving and maturing to breeding age thus multiplying our No.1 cause of losses ?? The rewards for being successful with Ybs are a pittance in most clubs and federations. Yet we send birds, some of them very valuable, to face their demise week in week out through the most dangerous period of the year for them to be in the sky. I for one would support this if given a vote on it or if the unions banned it. Would You ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec guinness Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Race them with the old birds midweek. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby4 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 A would go with that john throwing precious time money an pigeons away 60 rings a took an have 14 left an not over 100ml its madness. Or go north deff cant be worse than going south Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE FIFER Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 have done it this year, got a few to train out and race as yearlings, young bird losses is an ongoing event, and has been for many years, and all most fanciers do is breed more to lose more, I agree young bird racing is a thing of the past, and wood be hard on the bop. less food, so would cut them down, my view, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandy25 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 John you never asked a better question ...I hope it gets the desired answers and appropriate actions would be nice to think that that could be the way ...all the best ..Sandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe tyre Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Think it's defo worth a try as something has to be done as it's only going to get worse and I also think feds should call it a day and forget the last couple of race's this year to just throwing away birds they aren't learning anything with the way the racing has been imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammy 11 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Race them with the old birds midweek.You no work anymore john Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Fifer Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Interesting post and defo food for thought. It's something I've thought about many times.If yer not racing ybs then ye can be more selective and breed less. You wont need a big team of ybs. As long as they are well trained IN THE YEAR OF BIRTH then they can turn out just as good as raced ybs in the end, certainly bu the time their 2yo anyway. If more fanciers were to adopt this system they might be pleasantly surprised! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alec guinness Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 You no work anymore john When I was a lad a long time ago we had Wednesday club race mark Tuesday night lib Wednesday 3.30 - 4.30. 60 - 90 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyleakin Lofts Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 No matter where you look these days all you read about are horrendous losses and fanciers getting wiped out of their Ybs in a matter of two or three races. So is it time to stop racing them, even for two or three years to give them the opportunity to mature and a better chance in life ?? And give us a clearer idea if they get to mature into yearlings they have a better chance to escape the talons of predators. Would this impact on the number of raptors surviving and maturing to breeding age thus multiplying our No.1 cause of losses ?? The rewards for being successful with Ybs are a pittance in most clubs and federations. Yet we send birds, some of them very valuable, to face their demise week in week out through the most dangerous period of the year for them to be in the sky. I for one would support this if given a vote on it or if the unions banned it. Would You ?? John, I am a relative new start, starting around 11 years ago, but at that time I watched this and other sites. I made a decision then that I would not race Young Birds. The thoughts at that time were that peregrines were killing for fun, to teach their YB's how to hunt. We were racing our Young Birds at the height of raptor activity. It seemed stupid to me to race my Young Birds, thus my decision. I have heard it stated that distance racing is a game of patience, but it seems we have none. Un-raced Young Birds need a bit of patience. They can be trained during October and November. Admittedly, shorter days, failing light and colder weather would mean shorter distances, but we are training to improve and hone their mental fitness, physical fitness can be gained around the loft. I don't think it would have a major effect on the raptor population, but it may have some effect. Highlighted text says it in a nutshell. I don't think the Unions will ban it, it is not part of their remit. I don't even know whether Federations would put it to a vote, unless it came as a proposal to them. It is time for us to do it off our own back. Perhaps some trialists could be raced just to see if they merited a place in our lofts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airdrie2 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Race them with the old birds midweek.that would kill the sport for the working fanciers john and it would be only the working fanciers that could afford it possibly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyleakin Lofts Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 that would kill the sport for the working fanciers john and it would be only the working fanciers that could afford it possibly The sport is dying on its feet and we are doing nothing to stop it. We need to look at the problems, then come up with solutions. We know some of the problems and we know some of the solutions, but we are not working together to make them effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arranview Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 John, I am a relative new start, starting around 11 years ago, but at that time I watched this and other sites. I made a decision then that I would not race Young Birds. The thoughts at that time were that peregrines were killing for fun, to teach their YB's how to hunt. We were racing our Young Birds at the height of raptor activity. It seemed stupid to me to race my Young Birds, thus my decision. I have heard it stated that distance racing is a game of patience, but it seems we have none. Un-raced Young Birds need a bit of patience. They can be trained during October and November. Admittedly, shorter days, failing light and colder weather would mean shorter distances, but we are training to improve and hone their mental fitness, physical fitness can be gained around the loft. I don't think it would have a major effect on the raptor population, but it may have some effect. Highlighted text says it in a nutshell. I don't think the Unions will ban it, it is not part of their remit. I don't even know whether Federations would put it to a vote, unless it came as a proposal to them. It is time for us to do it off our own back. Perhaps some trialists could be raced just to see if they merited a place in our lofts. Andy you should be able to answer this question, how many races have you won with us raced ybs,what distance have you raced them to and have you built a team of old birds yet ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBA421 Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 John totally agree with you.Why continue to sacrifice a season of breeding a team of your best young birds when you know on race day you will be lucky to have 40% return home. Next year Feds must consider trying any age racing,it cannot be any worse than what is happening now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimC Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 John I agree with you except I believe we have to educate them. For years now I have only raced my young birds first two races and then stopped them,only racing young birds that I think are surplus for requirements For the following year. They don’t have to be raced right out as y/bs to win as yearlings as I have proved, topped fed with yearling from Ypres that had only 1 y/b race, this year yearling home from Reims only 2 y/b races. Fanciers including myself aren’t training y/bs properly through fear, so I think the federation should help all of us to educate the y/bs,and the only way I think that’s possible is to have 3 or 4 races from Dunbar because for some reason we are still getting good steady returns from that area. That learns Them about the transporter and gives them confidence for the following year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyleakin Lofts Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Andy you should be able to answer this question, how many races have you won with us raced ybs,what distance have you raced them to and have you built a team of old birds yet ? That's simple and I'm sure you know the answer. I have never won any races, I've raced them out to 300 miles, and I've not built a team of Old Birds yet. Ask the same question to others who are only around 11 years into pigeons. Many will be in a similar position. Does that devalue my or their opinion? You have kept pigeons for a lot longer than I have, how about a positive comment? Ricky, you should be able to give an opinion on these questions. How many races do you think you could win with un-raced Young Birds. What distance do you think you could race them to? Could you build a team of Old Birds from them? I know there are top National fliers who train later bred Young Birds during October and November and given time, they also time them from Nationals over 500 miles. I am no where near as good as them, but you should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyleakin Lofts Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 John I agree with you except I believe we have to educate them. For years now I have only raced my young birds first two races and then stopped them,only racing young birds that I think are surplus for requirements For the following year. They don’t have to be raced right out as y/bs to win as yearlings as I have proved, topped fed with yearling from Ypres that had only 1 y/b race, this year yearling home from Reims only 2 y/b races. Fanciers including myself aren’t training y/bs properly through fear, so I think the federation should help all of us to educate the y/bs,and the only way I think that’s possible is to have 3 or 4 races from Dunbar because for some reason we are still getting good steady returns from that area. That learns Them about the transporter and gives them confidence for the following year. Ricky, here's one and a positive reply. Thanks JimC for not trying to demerit my answer to John Quinn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
easygaun Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 No matter where you look these days all you read about are horrendous losses and fanciers getting wiped out of their Ybs in a matter of two or three races. So is it time to stop racing them, even for two or three years to give them the opportunity to mature and a better chance in life ?? And give us a clearer idea if they get to mature into yearlings they have a better chance to escape the talons of predators. Would this impact on the number of raptors surviving and maturing to breeding age thus multiplying our No.1 cause of losses ?? The rewards for being successful with Ybs are a pittance in most clubs and federations. Yet we send birds, some of them very valuable, to face their demise week in week out through the most dangerous period of the year for them to be in the sky. I for one would support this if given a vote on it or if the unions banned it. Would You ??Couldn't agree more John,hundreds of young birds bred to feed the raptors.Why not breed what you need to replace O.B losses, not too difficult to estimate, even if you have a bad year, more room for what's left.Didn't breed any early y.bs myself this year because I didn't think we would be racing at all.Have 8 later bred, just raking now, and haven't missed the trauma of club mates losing big numbers.It is the same every year now, guys cleaned out and not even reached 100 miles.I know it's a short season but it's not doo racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe tyre Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 I also think federation training helps our young birds for experience to I had a few without a loss so if not racing the fed training would go a long way in helping if that's possible but wee all need change that ther is no doubt just hope it's sooner rather than later yours in sport Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valiant Fifer Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Do fanciers realy think that not racing ybs will effect the future of the sport ? Personaly I doubt very much if it would.Yes clubs and feds would have less income but in the long term it might be better. People would have more ylgs in their teams the following year which would boost the funds a bit. Rather than the horrendous losses and negative knock on effects that we usually see we could then maybe have the desired effect and something to look forward to. Let's be honest yb racing has become unrecognisable compared to what it was 30 yrs ago or even 20.Can we realy afford to go down the road we are going year in year out ????? IF WE KEEP DOING THE SAME WE WILL KEEP GETTING THE SAME RESULTS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiger Posted August 31, 2020 Report Share Posted August 31, 2020 Tryed that last year and was total disaster for me started with 26 yearlings and am left with 1.So I am of the opinion they must be raced and trained in the year of their birth. Jmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King billy 2 Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 Just thinking out the box her If all feds had one loft full of unrung pigeons that are treated as racers and took to the race point and released 1hr before the rest with good paint on there backs this would clear the road home for the rest of the fed after 1 season they would need to be well bred and trained and a £1 week of all members to keep them in the best of feed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo54 Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 I personally don’t race young birds and haven’t done for a long number of years, young bird losses is not a new thing we have had disasters as long as I can remember albeit is getting worse, but in saying that I don’t think stopping young bird racing would make the slightest bit of difference to the peregrine population as they are predators and will eat anything to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arranview Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 That's simple and I'm sure you know the answer. I have never won any races, I've raced them out to 300 miles, and I've not built a team of Old Birds yet. Ask the same question to others who are only around 11 years into pigeons. Many will be in a similar position. Does that devalue my or their opinion? You have kept pigeons for a lot longer than I have, how about a positive comment? Ricky, you should be able to give an opinion on these questions. How many races do you think you could win with un-raced Young Birds. What distance do you think you could race them to? Could you build a team of Old Birds from them? I know there are top National fliers who train later bred Young Birds during October and November and given time, they also time them from Nationals over 500 miles. I am no where near as good as them, but you should be. It was a valid question, ive tried both and the raced ybs for me are far better than the ones thats just trained ,11yrs and never won a race or got a team built tells me they need some sort of racing thanks for your long winded reply 👠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arranview Posted September 1, 2020 Report Share Posted September 1, 2020 Just thinking out the box her If all feds had one loft full of unrung pigeons that are treated as racers and took to the race point and released 1hr before the rest with good paint on there backs this would clear the road home for the rest of the fed after 1 season they would need to be well bred and trained and a £1 week of all members to keep them in the best of feedSpot on ,I've said it for yrs every fed have a donor loft with 200 ybs trained out to 30 miles radius of the loft them raced every Saturday, 2 seasons and we could enjoy yb racing again with the birds hitting towns and villages in batches again, never mind hiding hoping it'll get better the season is short enough without racing and educating the ybs only my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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