Kyleakin Lofts Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) nationals should be for national birds only , not watered down with allowing feds convoying facilities , I also agree, but nevertheless, it is a different matter. Reality of the present time is that Federations use the National for conveying to the longer distances and the National uses the Federations to subsidise their costs. There is no point in looking back to what was, we have to deal with the reality of what is. This is the original post. "The last few years the weather in September and October has been fantastic and this trend is set to continue due to global warming etc. I think its time to change our thinking regarding yb racing.I think we could run 2 yb programs, the traditional one from July to Sept and another from the start of Sept to the end of October/start November.You could half your yb team and send to both programs .The later program helps with avoiding the hawk problem and will make it easier for natural ybs to complete the program without being darkened. The race program meetings will be coming up very soon and this, in my opinion, is definitely food for thought and hopefully will be discussed." We have to discount all the "red herrings". If we think that we require a change and want this change, then YB National held in late October or during July. If we want the other changes mentioned in the later posts, then National water races later in the year and Inlands to suit will cause the Federations to change and the whole Scottish racing programme will change. Edited October 21, 2018 by Kyleakin Lofts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) One or two, well more thing for certain are sitting on the hands mean you can't pick your nose. Twiddling thumbs should stay with knitting and it TAKES one Step to start a trip of a 1000 miles. - Which will be I'm afraid! lets ask you all, 'Just when does one, or you want to see change and progress, and the very important help needed for our beloved birds … 10 years, 20 years, when we and the sport are dead and gone! P.S. can't for love or money see any National being interested and chance losing their comfy chairs and other self investments. Never has happened and NEVER will in any walk of life... and certainly not in our so - called sport. Question is 'Why should, would they? …. Everyone know that answer. Needs to start now, at next club meeting. Need to then let the FEDERATIONS know we are losing unhappy members... LET them know we are losing our BIRDS galore. Yes they know, but don't give a rats behind! Why should thay as long as their nests are well feathered and 'Members' look up to them as they smile down at them! Edited October 21, 2018 by Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddymac Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Have to disagree Roly. The members of the National are the grass roots. If they cause the National to change then the Federations will change to keep in line with the National. The grass roots at Club level will cause their Federations to change to keep in line with the National. It may be different in England where there are Specialist Clubs, International Clubs and three or four Nationals, but Scotland only has two National Clubs. A lot of National minded fliers race in both and hopefully the rift will heal and Scotland will be back to one National. That apart, since it has nothing to do with Derek's original post, a lot of these grass roots members are the same people, so both could change at, or around, the same time. I agree the grass roots would start the change, but they must do it at National level. The Federations are too fractionalised and introverted. They think only of their own back yard and aim to tie what suits them into the National programme. It is at National level where everyone comes together and it is at National level where the change will have to start. If you want this change attend your National AGM and vote it in. Be bold, new ideas mean taking the risk, being a leader and providing the stage for others to follow. Your contradicting yourself Andy, it either starts at grass level or it doesn't :emoticon-0138-thinking: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 (edited) You know, he knows and we all see them. The committees personsAT every LEVEL who are supposedly looking after our interests... MORESO our birds, with their self important postures and smiles. they false deep sigh when agreeing. Even spouting things need to change etc. Oh yeah! Well for another certainty nothing with ever change until we move and start going for a change! He who pays the piper calls the tune! Or should do and the grass roots are funding these people and concerns and take the 'Honour' and appease themselves full stop. As read today@ 'The secret of change is to focus all of your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new,'. Edited October 21, 2018 by Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyleakin Lofts Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 Your contradicting yourself Andy, it either starts at grass level or it doesn't :emoticon-0138-thinking: I am not contradicting myself. The grass roots referred to are the individuals who keep and race their pigeons. If at club level they decide on this change and make the effort to attend their Federation AGM to ensure the Federation provides them the change all is good and well, however, ............................... in a Federation of three clubs there may be a good chance of this being effected.in a Federation of 10 clubs the odds stack up more against it. These changes conflict with National programmes. How often have we heard of the wish for Federations to convoy together in an amalgamation to bring pigeons back into the same area? How often has it been effected? How often have we heard about the divisions within a Federation between the National racers and the Federation racers? This is the reason why it has to start at National level. Yes, the grass roots will bring it into effect, but only if they push it through at National level. Federations don't seem to be able to agree to joint convoy, but still want the National to convoy them to the further races, so this is the reason why the change has to start at National level. There is no contradiction, just an expression of logic. Not everyone will agree with that logic, but nevertheless, that logic is my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paddymac Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 At the end of the day it has to start at grass route level, thats my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Reid Posted October 21, 2018 Report Share Posted October 21, 2018 expletive remove every pigeon fancier knows what the problem is . But until the law changes and we can react positively and reduce the birds of prey I don't think it matters what month what day or even hour we start training our pigeons.So for me you have to do your own thing . I know it's not ideal but what else can fanciers do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Well out of all this, are we to believe that the National, Section governing bodies haven't a clue as to we have a problem. Off course they do .. but outside oF pursing lips and nodding heads NOTHING! As for Percy, of course that is a thorn in the side.... But to lay the blame there is unfair. Once they hit a flock the birds are terrified and scatter etc. But can't be held for the disastrous results most weeks from races etc. Nothing ventured nothing gained.Don't mould the consensus, but consense the mould. Maybe time to shoot the messeger ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Well out of all this, are we to believe that the National, Section governing bodies haven't a clue as to we have a problem. Off course they do .. but outside oF pursing lips and nodding heads NOTHING! As for Percy, of course that is a thorn in the side.... But to lay the blame there is unfair. Once they hit a flock the birds are terrified and scatter etc. But can't be held for the disastrous results most weeks from races etc. Nothing ventured nothing gained.Don't mould the consensus, but consense the mould. Maybe time to shoot the messeger ... I think you are underestimating the damage percy is doing Roland, especially with ybs. Its been shown that, on average, a convoy of pigeons are attacked every 15 to 20 miles. That equates to a lot of devastation over even a short race of 100 miles. I realise that their are more factors than BOP that contribute to the unbelievable yb losses of recent years, but, id say BOP is top of the list. Anybody that thinks if we continue to do the same thing we will get a different outcome, is insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) I agree some what Delboy… and yes as reported by Feds and letters in the B/W Percy and how Percy and co QUEUE UP at lib sites WAITING FOR THE RELEASE. Yet still the feds and stupid club members vote each season to release there. Yes agree not many safe havens to release... Hang on have a Dekkers around, there are very many NEW sites etc. Many untried. Our fault, we should - being the clever one with reasoning ability - alter and CERTAINLY not have libs there week in and week out! Our fault and problem not the birds! You know Delboy, we will continue to sit on our hands and do nowt, TRY nothing and the whinging will be even louder till in 4-5 years possibly less the sport will be no more than a memory. Then the shout will be 'They saw this coming and did nothing! Especially when seeing it coming and happening! But worse still WE DIDN'T EVEN TRY ANYTHING … EXCEPT WHINGE AND MOAN A LOT MORE! It isn't he that tries and fails that is the defeatist … it is he that didn't even try! Edited October 22, 2018 by Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 I agree some what Delboy… and yes as reported by Feds and letters in the B/W Percy and how Percy and co QUEUE UP at lib sites WAITING FOR THE RELEASE. Yet still the feds and stupid club members vote each season to release there. Yes agree not many safe havens to release... Hang on have a Dekkers around, there are very many NEW sites etc. Many untried. Our fault, we should - being the clever one with reasoning ability - alter and CERTAINLY not have libs there week in and week out! Our fault and problem not the birds! You know Delboy, we will continue to sit on our hands and do nowt, TRY nothing and the whinging will be even louder till in 4-5 years possibly less the sport will be no more than a memory. Then the shout will be 'They saw this coming and did nothing! Especially when seeing it coming and happening! But worse still WE DIDN'T EVEN TRY ANYTHING … EXCEPT WHINGE AND MOAN A LOT MORE! It isn't he that tries and fails that is the defeatist … it is he that didn't even try! Exactly, well said!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby4 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 I think you are underestimating the damage percy is doing Roland, especially with ybs. Its been shown that, on average, a convoy of pigeons are attacked every 15 to 20 miles. That equates to a lot of devastation over even a short race of 100 miles. I realise that their are more factors than BOP that contribute to the unbelievable yb losses of recent years, but, id say BOP is top of the list. Anybody that thinks if we continue to do the same thing we will get a different outcome, is insane. 100% correct an we can change this an that which won't make any difference to our racing Percy the biggest problem we have and its too late .try anything race points times off racing won't make a difference jmo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Commence racing youngsters last Saturday in June with the Old Birds (in any age races) and have the Yb racing concluded last week in August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjamie Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 ITS TOO FAR GONE NOW THE SPORT IS DONE TOO MANY OF THESE BOPS BUGGERING THE BIRDS HEADS UP AS WELL A GREAT SPORT ABOUT FINNISHED ITS A SHAME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 No ,no Jamie, no negative posts on this thread although I know what you mean m8.The pigeon fancier has developed into a profet of doom . Pigeon fanciers go down the club on a Saturday and all they talk about is a different species of bird ie. the hawk.You wouldn’t see golfers finishing a round and go in to the clubhouse and discuss tennis all day.Instead , we should be talking about the winner of the race, how it’s bred, how it’s fed, how it’s motivated etc etc.The fancy are too interested in the yb sickness, viruses,the losses, the disastrous races neighbouring feds have, while they had a good one.All negative talk that has become a trend. We are needing solutions to move forward and beat the sh it out of anything that comes in our way.Good luck for 2019 Jamie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby4 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Get what your saying Derek a would say 75% of pigeon men know what the biggest problem is but that isn't getting sorted .your right what your saying what we should be talking about on race day people 1 st question is how's your returns an you can't help the way guys are feeling an what happens in most races. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delboy Posted October 22, 2018 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 Get what your saying Derek a would say 75% of pigeon men know what the biggest problem is but that isn't getting sorted .your right what your saying what we should be talking about on race day people 1 st question is how's your returns an you can't help the way guys are feeling an what happens in most races. The negative trend has to stop Kevin, lets quietly get things sorted and get back the enjoyment we once had. A wee meeting of the hierarchy ( and im not talking about unions here) and a select few should take place to sort a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 No ,no Jamie, no negative posts on this thread although I know what you mean m8.The pigeon fancier has developed into a profet of doom . Pigeon fanciers go down the club on a Saturday and all they talk about is a different species of bird ie. the hawk.You wouldn’t see golfers finishing a round and go in to the clubhouse and discuss tennis all day.Instead , we should be talking about the winner of the race, how it’s bred, how it’s fed, how it’s motivated etc etc.The fancy are too interested in the yb sickness, viruses,the losses, the disastrous races neighbouring feds have, while they had a good one.All negative talk that has become a trend. We are needing solutions to move forward and beat the sh it out of anything that comes in our way.Good luck for 2019 Jamie. True Delboy … and nothing, absolutely nothing to help solve, or make things better … LET alone what's going to be the new Agenda … That is the same old one too ' Weer, you know I would, … but it's the others'. Psss WAKE up, you are one of the others'! - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby4 Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 The negative trend has to stop Kevin, lets quietly get things sorted and get back the enjoyment we once had. A wee meeting of the hierarchy ( and im not talking about unions here) and a select few should take place to sort a few things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE FIFER Posted October 22, 2018 Report Share Posted October 22, 2018 dont think it could be done, but there is a few ways young birds go missing, !/ bop, (how much) 2/ brought back home with stray baskets (how much)3/ going into other lofts,some reported some probably not, (how much) 4/ being reported by non fanciers in their back gardens,how much 5/ by members (2 0n site i believe) going down south to bring birds back up the road,how much 6/ joining with the streeters and living wild, how much, 2-3-4-5 and six, most are healthy fit birds, why dont they home, ????, bop are a part of losses , but there are a good few other reasons, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) Firstly a think tank of all club members in all feds. Any and all propositions sent to Fed and them on to all other Fed clubs for debating. Then propositions put forward to Fed any prepositions to be discussed and voted on. No need for any hierarchy to be involved at this stage, …. But thoughts and what the votes state to be passed on to National clubs. Be nice for them to be kept in the loop. Next year maybe, just maybe, some beneficial changes will take place. Others propositions to be voted and took noticed off next October etc. At least thoughts, and a way forward may take a few steps forward. This would begin at the grass roots. Would also mean that higher organisations will get the drift and start to get off their' backsides and start trying to do something ... some things worth while instead of just taking in our money! Granted we need them! But they are there and been voted in to look after OUR and the BIRDS interests. Edited October 23, 2018 by Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walterboswell59 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 no youngbird racing for one or two seasons should go a long way to improving the bop problem which is 99 percent of our problem no racing at all for a season would be even better dont be kidded if we do not feed them they canot survive in there present numbers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooheed 5 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 no youngbird racing for one or two seasons should go a long way to improving the bop problem which is 99 percent of our problem no racing at all for a season would be even better dont be kidded if we do not feed them they canot survive in there present numbersObviously you do not understand the enemy Mr Boswell ? Like Iv said a million time on here these birds are able to hunt a wide variety of prey ! Ok I’m not saying filling the sky every weekend during the Racing season is not beneficial to them of coarse it is but they are not going to curl up and die if we cease Racing they will easily hunt and thrive on other species until we decide to race again !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 Their favourite kill is the Pheasant. Remember well my son in -law - going to display. The Percy would go up and around and back for it's tib bit. Then just after the Falconer sent it up he saw a Pheasant. He groaned and moaned spouted 'It won't come back till it has taken the head off it. Try as he might he couldn't retrieve it till after it had killed the Pheasant etc., Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunc50 Posted October 23, 2018 Report Share Posted October 23, 2018 no youngbird racing for one or two seasons should go a long way to improving the bop problem which is 99 percent of our problem no racing at all for a season would be even better dont be kidded if we do not feed them they canot survive in there present numbersWalter a thought you would no better stop racing for 5 years won't make the slytest bit o difference, Percy lives to 15-20 years and will feed it's self no probs, what do you think they eat in winter when most of the fancy shut up shop, there survivers and good at it, JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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