Yb Racing, Time For A Change.

[kapri 07]

Ok thanks .

[Roland]

You know, the amount posted, not only on this site, but most other tells it's own story!

It tells me that racing returns and losses are now getting unacceptable … (like I've banged on about for years). That fanciers, disheartened and dismayed are peed off! Not really about the cost etc in monetary terms, but the welfare and losses and the believe that , not only are they unacceptable BUT time for a change is over due! How is the stumbling block then is 'How can others make an improvement 'For Me WITHOUT me having to change my ways and habits'! Knight in white shiny armour was a myth too... they were in reality skulduggery mercenaries that raped and pillage the country side robbing and Killing. the 'Knight Templers' were so rich that the Roman Catholic was richer. Indeed it was the Catholic Church' that eventually put a stop to them because they could no longer control them etc. Yes here were are hopinG that something like will suit our purposes! It won't happen! Only way forward is to Vote at club level and present to Feds and governing Bodies. Time to take a stand in out own affairs for a change ( no Pun intended) but Change is needed, and needed NOW!

 

So I say to the 'Spanner throwers@ what are you? Man or mouse squeak up!

Plus please stop putting B.O.P. into the thesis! they are nothing to do with this debate. They are a completely different concern and needing a different approach / Ideas. The changes we are on about won't change one iota regards Percy and co killing. That is another story altogether!

Edited October 19, 2018 by Roland

[bibendium]

Could keep the OB & YB programmes status quo and every 2nd Sunday from start of May till end of August have a 80/100 training race.. this would help with getting birds fit, birds which have been Injured, training for longer races, folk who want there YBs going early then put by could use it, again more training and transporter experience for later YBs or doos that have been ill or injured..

 

Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Ayrshire could tie up and iron out any difficulties which we face face if we again looked at combine racing or joint convoying..

The downside to this is the three feds will never tie up , we cannot even joint liberate let alone convoy together.

[Roland]

You know this is a serious problem...! Doesn't one think it's time to be serious and get serious about sorting it out!

Edited October 19, 2018 by Roland

[geordie1234]

A longer season doesn't bare thinking about lol

[Guest mambo]

You know this is a serious problem...! Doesn't one think it's time to be serious and get serious about sorting it out!

we need a paid old johnny apple seed guy leaving seeds all over the place,

[philg50]

The trouble is we all know losses are terrible but no one has the answer ,climate change ,darkness,over medication ,vaccination who knows the reason i dont ,what about banning darkness and dont issue rings until 1st of march .

[Delboy]

The trouble is we all know losses are terrible but no one has the answer ,climate change ,darkness,over medication ,vaccination who knows the reason i dont ,what about banning darkness and dont issue rings until 1st of march .

 

hahahha

 

we need a paid old johnny apple seed guy leaving seeds all over the place,

 

Hate to agree with you but .....

[Roland]

geordie1234 I agree, A longer season doesn't bare thinking about lol

 

philg50 says 'The trouble is we all know losses are terrible but no one has the answer ,climate change ,darkness,over medication ,vaccination who knows the reason i dont ,what about banning darkness and dont issue rings until 1st of march'.

 

Getting back to the nature of our birds as near as possible would certainly help for starters I have no doubt.

 

Think personally that would be a good start. Start racing later, and no need to lose races flown … And certainly no need to have transporter idle for 2 week in mid season.

 

Even today after the sun was up, I thought 8 o'clock up they go... 200 miles! They'd be home nicely well before 2 O'clock at the latest.

 

Breeding in better weather and giving a better climate for the youngsters.

[Delboy]

So, everyone agrees that the current format for racing doesn’t work as good as it used to. So, what’s the next step to resolving this?

[avante]

I think if we sent less birds to each race and bred less , surely this would help,we are keeping the food source out there with the amount of birds we send,even peregrines are territorial less food, less for them to rare so many young, they would then impact there own survival ,i mean some people have sent 60 to a race, and then complain when they lose 30 of them that week, of course bop gets the blame, to many birds mean more chances of being struck less is better ,basket no more than 12 per race ,keep the races at 60 to 80 miles for 3 4 weeks then all your young have had an education then go 110 to 120 for 2 weeks then 150 for the birds who still have feathers,you will probably find that a lot of members are in mid week clubs doing this already,getting good returns from small libs,also remember that our over eager feds are putting our birds up in some pretty bad weather, and there to blame for some terrible returns,for example catterick worst race of the year , in my opinion, lets get back to pickin your pooler from 10/12 rather than sending 40/50 and just wanting anyone of them to turn up ,also expence why keep so many, this would be my way forward ,cut down the food source even if we have to start later.

[tommy bhoys]

think we should start first week in april and dont have a two week break between old and young and stop feds liberating 15 mins apart

[peter pandy]

think we should start first week in april and dont have a two week break between old and young and stop feds liberating 15 mins apart

Aye Tommy, joker to the last.. April this year had 13 days with temperature above 10c and most days were North Easters, Sleet and 2c would do wonders in hardening them up.. LOL.

[tommy bhoys]

Aye Tommy, joker to the last.. April this year had 13 days with temperature above 10c and most days were North Easters, Sleet and 2c would do wonders in hardening them up.. LOL.

lanarkshire raced from the second week in april and the coldest day we libbed birds was in may at ripon

[THE FIFER]

I think if we sent less birds to each race and bred less , surely this would help,we are keeping the food source out there with the amount of birds we send,even peregrines are territorial less food, less for them to rare so many young, they would then impact there own survival ,i mean some people have sent 60 to a race, and then complain when they lose 30 of them that week, of course bop gets the blame, to many birds mean more chances of being struck less is better ,basket no more than 12 per race ,keep the races at 60 to 80 miles for 3 4 weeks then all your young have had an education then go 110 to 120 for 2 weeks then 150 for the birds who still have feathers,you will probably find that a lot of members are in mid week clubs doing this already,getting good returns from small libs,also remember that our over eager feds are putting our birds up in some pretty bad weather, and there to blame for some terrible returns,for example catterick worst race of the year , in my opinion, lets get back to pickin your pooler from 10/12 rather than sending 40/50 and just wanting anyone of them to turn up ,also expence why keep so many, this would be my way forward ,cut down the food source even if we have to start later.

 

a good post m8, a lot now breed for Quantity and not quality pigeons have a natural homing instink, we go off nature, breeding in the winter, and well into the year, we make them moult when we want them too,not when nature does( dont change our ways oh no change the birds way of living ) also as said hundreds lost but still flying wild keeping BOP fed all year round, my local high street is moving with streeters , the local pet shop feeds them (surprised he is allowd to ) I was there one day and counted 14 rung birds and probably more as they are fighting around for the food, only my views,

[Roland]

Good post Fifer!

THE 20,000 fancier today send times more than the 150.000 did in the late 50's / the 60's!

 

Breed to counteract losses! Where are we here! Outsiders looking in would incredulously spout 'Get away with yer'! 'Are you for real'!~?

 

Breed later - end of March early April. 1st race 1st or 2nd week May. Practical and still have 24 plus Nationals races! If that isn't enough, then I suggest the pigeons are in the wrong lofts!

Percy will still be about. The RSPB will make sure of that. Will always have some bad day races... But far, far fewer. Birds need to be rotated these days like they were, naturally, years ago. 6 week is the time of Super Form... 7 weeks Tops. So with the nest circles etc. one Can / Could have some on song EVERY race.

Better bred and healthy conditioned youngsters when reproduced later too … Specific a pointer, or factor for y/b losses.

Time to get the pigeons Mentally fit first and then physically fit. They work in conjunction.

 

But then we are wasting our breath because the Fancier, the so-called pigeon and sports lover want others to change, but not him. So I think it's time to discard the soapbox of many years in this regards and watch the fancier carry on their' downward traits. None so blind as those that WON'T see. Yes, the detrimental characteristics prevailing now will worsen, and countless excuses amid vain hopes will abound.

 

You know, for the first time in over sixty years I'm glad to be out the sport. Embarrassed even more with the treatment of our unique, brave, wonderful and beautiful pigeons. The pigeon that - most (ly) give their all for unfeeling and selfish so-called sports people with total disregard for the 'Wonders and ability that are treated in this disgusting way!

Yes! Many love and appreciate the birds, and their attributes... but sadly the lesser selfish fancier does, and will continue to spout and rule. Yes, I am ashamed regards the attitude and disgraceful fanciers as stated. Breeding birds to LOSE. To feed Percy and care not a jot... then I wonder why I, YES I should be ashamed! Well, it is because I am, will be, or maybe tarred with the same brush.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Roland

[Roland]

Now, the greed to steal a march. gain any yard going, and the urge to Race is paramount ... sadly to the detrimental cost and downward trend and spiralling of the so-called sport is in today. Sadly only ever to get worse.

I, like many others, try most seasons for a later start to racing, and of course, a later finish.

Cold winds invariably, plus mostly from the East. Sense! forget the first part none and have nonsense to our peril.

 

Look at the returns - again this year already and even half a brain should be able to understand the nonsensible and stupidness yet again practised these past two weeks. Returns. North Rd cancelled. South Road put back a day. Even though the weather forecast and reality was far worse from the South Coast.

The results were less than a 5th. Stu 3 from 15 and so on. Bicc I hear went from Falaise France 32 from 2400 after over 6 hours. And so on.

Never mind the twaddle of 'If good enough they will do it'! Does this reflect on how many culls went to the even the short distances?

was the time, not so long ago when early March was considered even too early to mate up. Many 1st weeks in April.

Youngsters, like the old birds, flew the distance. the longer races 240 - 380 miles. Seasons end the problem often was 'Which had to go.

Losses on a Saturday were usually on the loft next morning... 2-3 days and then believed lost.

- Many came back on the Wednesday / Thursday which was basketed on Friday and some even won!

 

Youngster healthier bred. Also held their feathering longer.

 

Now we know that we can easily fly our birds even into Mid to Late September. To far better weather at that - Ok 1976 and a few over years were poor weatherwise ... But then regardless when born or sent it would have been the same.

 

Take the so stupid scenario of the longest race. On the North most seasons Lerwick.

'Must be the Saturday NEAREST to June the 22nd! Because it means 6 MINUTES LONGER DAYLIGHT! EEK!

When it was proven that that liberation then was liable for very unsettled weather. Can be clear one minute and foggy 2 minutes later!

 

Yet in July times were vastly superior! Timing in at 2 O'clock was not unheard off with far better returns!

Youngster losses stating in August fared far better. All facts.

And yet some / most rush to get the breeding over and on the Dark or Light system. Gain a march? Very expensive at that... and the costs each season is rising.

 

I get jeered because I don't entertain racing till in May!

I wonder how many wished that they hadn't sent these two past weeks?

Indeed JUST how many wished today that there hadn't been racing last two weeks.

Would have meant the same amount of races, but far more pigeons come seasons end ...

Does one really think, believe that they are giving themselves AND the sport fair innings?

Well, I suppose that depends on who is 'Tickling their' ear' and who they follow and vote for...

plus preparing to restock so very often. Yes, breed more to compensate their' losses.

Any and every excuse is made bar looking in the mirror.

Lofts full of culls means now one- one too many are prepared to lose many good birds for the hope and wing of a prayer that they might, just might have a winner ... and HANG THE COST! JMO.

[Delboy]

A lot of good points Roland, but its not negativity of what's already past we need, its forward thinking and plans for the future we are after.

[philg50]

IMO the top guys ,officials, SHU representatives from feds etc sit down and think up away forward regards where we go from here for changes with regards to young bird racing ,then allow postal vote for club members to decide on recomendations put forward ,guidance must imo come from the top .I think its a hard one to solve thats if change is wanted .

[Roland]

A lot of good points Roland, but its not negativity of what's already past we need, its forward thinking and plans for the future we are after.

 

Very true Delboy .. But fear it is now down to the members to start a process to better the sport.

 

philg50 agree to a large extent... also the RPRA and other bodies.

However as we know, and their history proves, they will only act / do so when forced via a members growing concerns.

I don't think for a moment that any will even jot a thought in this regards. A spokes mens is needed and clubs needed to start the process.

 

So to you both, and many more of such thinking no change means more of the same ... Sorry even more detrimental seasons in this down ward spiral. Time to act is now, before programmes Breeder / Buyers are arranged. Before voting is took a voice to be heard.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

This has to start at National level.

 

If the National race programme is conducive to this change then it will happen. Most Federations attempt to tie in to the National race programme, so it is this that dictates their race programmes, be it for transportation to the longer races or other reasons. The Clubs' members chose the Federation programme that suits their National aspirations.

 

The Unions take nothing to do with it since their role is purely administrative and mainly just a register, be that members or rings.

[Roland]

Can't start at National level. How? the grass roots would have to have the first change. Nationals will only choose dates that suit to be flown on.

NO COMMITTEE at Fed or higher will even think about having any change. those that have tried in past have all be out voted, maneuverer and forced out or just simply gave up.

[paddymac]

Can't start at National level. How? the grass roots would have to have the first change. Nationals will only choose dates that suit to be flown on.

NO COMMITTEE at Fed or higher will even think about having any change. those that have tried in past have all be out voted, maneuverer and forced out or just simply gave up.

Have to agree Roland, it can only begin at grass roots level.

[Kyleakin Lofts]

Can't start at National level. How? the grass roots would have to have the first change. Nationals will only choose dates that suit to be flown on.

NO COMMITTEE at Fed or higher will even think about having any change. those that have tried in past have all be out voted, maneuverer and forced out or just simply gave up.

 

Have to disagree Roly.

 

The members of the National are the grass roots. If they cause the National to change then the Federations will change to keep in line with the National. The grass roots at Club level will cause their Federations to change to keep in line with the National.

 

It may be different in England where there are Specialist Clubs, International Clubs and three or four Nationals, but Scotland only has two National Clubs. A lot of National minded fliers race in both and hopefully the rift will heal and Scotland will be back to one National. That apart, since it has nothing to do with Derek's original post, a lot of these grass roots members are the same people, so both could change at, or around, the same time.

 

I agree the grass roots would start the change, but they must do it at National level. The Federations are too fractionalised and introverted. They think only of their own back yard and aim to tie what suits them into the National programme. It is at National level where everyone comes together and it is at National level where the change will have to start. If you want this change attend your National AGM and vote it in. Be bold, new ideas mean taking the risk, being a leader and providing the stage for others to follow.

[DJWa]

Have to disagree Roly.

 

The members of the National are the grass roots. If they cause the National to change then the Federations will change to keep in line with the National. The grass roots at Club level will cause their Federations to change to keep in line with the National.

 

It may be different in England where there are Specialist Clubs, International Clubs and three or four Nationals, but Scotland only has two National Clubs. A lot of National minded fliers race in both and hopefully the rift will heal and Scotland will be back to one National. That apart, since it has nothing to do with Derek's original post, a lot of these grass roots members are the same people, so both could change at, or around, the same time.

 

I agree the grass roots would start the change, but they must do it at National level. The Federations are too fractionalised and introverted. They think only of their own back yard and aim to tie what suits them into the National programme. It is at National level where everyone comes together and it is at National level where the change will have to start. If you want this change attend your National AGM and vote it in. Be bold, new ideas mean taking the risk, being a leader and providing the stage for others to follow.

nationals should be for national birds only ,

not watered down with allowing feds convoying facilities ,