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While I dont disagree with the main viewpoints,the danger here is in the interpatation that may be taken from it,,treat with this health programe and you will win races,dont think so,there is an awful lot more goes in to producing winners on a regular basis,just to list some of the requirements,good birds,now that has to be number one,the rest in no particular order,training,feeding correctly,breeding,loft management,excercise,and motivation etc ,there is an abundance of things needed to produce winners,and this is what the Novices,and lots of more established fanciers should relaize,while a health programe may or may not be useful,unless the birds are up to it and all others are practiced,it wont be much use.while 82 Father won the last three races,its also down to good birds,and proper management of same,hardly a health programe alone. Personally I use very little of above health programe and birds win races,due to my efforts and theirs.,but to think this programe is the answer to all racing problems,dont think so. J.M.O.
Hi Merlin don't disagree with you in principle. Earlier I gave myopinion the no1 was good birds, then health; the novice tends to have good birds but not a clue about health or perhaps you could say stockmanship, unless her his background is with stock. My opinion and most won't agree I know that 70/80% is down to the pigeon. In hot spot areas like the west midlands or Barnsley for example I have no doubt the fancier's management does make the diference between coming 1st or 6th, but those top fanciers have the birds and the health. Wihout those two requirements I believe you can forget any other aspect feeding, training etc makes not one jot of difference, it's irrelevant. If you have good birds and good health in most clubs you will be in the shake up most weeks, without those two requirements, you will never be any good. You can feed the most scientifc diet, have the cosmetically cleanest loft , cleaning 3 times a day, train them perfectly, have them out around the loft, contented in it, not worth owt. If you're birds are always well even though exposed regularly to others, then you have a damn good family and yes you don't need a health program I will agree with you on that Merlin. However don't know if it's different in Ireland to over here there are few fanciers who have such families, going a step further there are few fanciers with families, may have all the same named breed but not the same family.
After re-reading this thread I would like to appologise if I have upset anyone on this subject as this most certainly was not the intention. I come on this site because I enjoy it and I feel the members are very open and have been most helpfull to all who enquire. I only come here to learn from the poeple in the know and if you don't ask questions or state your concerns then the whole point is lost. I also very much expect to be corrected. The pigeon fancier is indeed a complex individaul and all have their own experiences and ideas and come from all walks of life. I have found while perusing through this website some invaluable knowledge and insight into the word of pigeons and long may it continue as the birds are the ones who will benifit in the end because lets face it without them there would be no racing, showing or just plain enjoyment from watching tumblers, rollers etc. That is the only reason I am on here coz I'm a doo man. I also enjoy the banter and on here we have a very good mix, do we not? I know some take it more seriously than others, personally I'm not compeditive at all. I just like to be around pigeons as I did when I was a lad (long time ago). The doos have been around man for thousands of years, let's hope it stays that way in a world far removed from interaction with our fellow beings. Let's say I had a system which involved artificial flights superglued to the birds which could give you *yds on your compeditors, would you be interested? Oops! sorry I just couldn't resist. Probably been done anyway!!!Only kidding by the way, just in case.
After re-reading this thread I would like to appologise if I have upset anyone on this subject as this most certainly was not the intention. I come on this site because I enjoy it and I feel the members are very open and have been most helpfull to all who enquire. I only come here to learn from the poeple in the know and if you don't ask questions or state your concerns then the whole point is lost. I also very much expect to be corrected. The pigeon fancier is indeed a complex individaul and all have their own experiences and ideas and come from all walks of life. I have found while perusing through this website some invaluable knowledge and insight into the word of pigeons and long may it continue as the birds are the ones who will benifit in the end because lets face it without them there would be no racing, showing or just plain enjoyment from watching tumblers, rollers etc. That is the only reason I am on here coz I'm a doo man. I also enjoy the banter and on here we have a very good mix, do we not? I know some take it more seriously than others, personally I'm not compeditive at all. I just like to be around pigeons as I did when I was a lad (long time ago). The doos have been around man for thousands of years, let's hope it stays that way in a world far removed from interaction with our fellow beings. Let's say I had a system which involved artificial flights superglued to the birds which could give you *yds on your compeditors, would you be interested? Oops! sorry I just couldn't resist. Probably been done anyway!!!Only kidding by the way, just in case.
fair play free bird that what it all about im the same as yourself love to be around birds but i do love to win i just love the competition aspect of the sport too as well as the birds and i don't think u upset anyone not me anyway although we might disagree a little but ain't it great that we are all different or else sites like this would be so boring that the way i see it we put our point of views forward well for me anyway i thought about what u said
but i know still im right only messin tell me more about your flights
After re-reading this thread I would like to appologise if I have upset anyone on this subject as this most certainly was not the intention. I come on this site because I enjoy it and I feel the members are very open and have been most helpfull to all who enquire. I only come here to learn from the poeple in the know and if you don't ask questions or state your concerns then the whole point is lost. I also very much expect to be corrected. The pigeon fancier is indeed a complex individaul and all have their own experiences and ideas and come from all walks of life. I have found while perusing through this website some invaluable knowledge and insight into the word of pigeons and long may it continue as the birds are the ones who will benifit in the end because lets face it without them there would be no racing, showing or just plain enjoyment from watching tumblers, rollers etc. That is the only reason I am on here coz I'm a doo man. I also enjoy the banter and on here we have a very good mix, do we not? I know some take it more seriously than others, personally I'm not compeditive at all. I just like to be around pigeons as I did when I was a lad (long time ago). The doos have been around man for thousands of years, let's hope it stays that way in a world far removed from interaction with our fellow beings. Let's say I had a system which involved artificial flights superglued to the birds which could give you *yds on your compeditors, would you be interested? Oops! sorry I just couldn't resist. Probably been done anyway!!!Only kidding by the way, just in case
Free Bird - Fact what you have highlighted has been done - the same fancier also cut from each flight feeling it would help there aero dynamics thats the truth - thankful it was not me but someone who i feel sure is 80+ and been in pigeons most his life he actually lives not too far from Ozbrit on here if i remember correctly
fair play free bird that what it all about im the same as yourself love to be around birds but i do love to win i just love the competition aspect of the sport too as well as the birds and i don't think u upset anyone not me anyway although we might disagree a little but ain't it great that we are all different or else sites like this would be so boring that the way i see it we put our point of views forward well for me anyway i thought about what u said
but i know still im right only messin tell me more about your flights
Well it's a bit top secret at the moment but I'll keep ye interested by saying I've got a big American indian Cheif who is willing to supply the Bald eagle feathers
Free Bird - Fact what you have highlighted has been done - the same fancier also cut from each flight feeling it would help there aero dynamics thats the truth - thankful it was not me but someone who i feel sure is 80+ and been in pigeons most his life he actually lives not too far from Ozbrit on here if i remember correctly
fair play free bird that what it all about im the same as yourself love to be around birds but i do love to win i just love the competition aspect of the sport too as well as the birds and i don't think u upset anyone not me anyway although we might disagree a little but ain't it great that we are all different or else sites like this would be so boring that the way i see it we put our point of views forward well for me anyway i thought about what u said
but i know still im right only messin tell me more about your flights
Couldn't agree more, it's about opinions and as you see from my posts I am happy to give them they may be complee bo88oc9s, but I know I'm right
A microsope will pick up things, you need to be quite skilled though because we're not just talking about worm or cocci eggs today. Most diseases tend to take a few days to manifest, then you have trouble and you may have to stop the birds for a few races. I would prefer to have a health program in place. But each to their own, many roads lead to Rome! I think you have to keep your birds healthy because if they're not healthy you can't keep them fit. The other interesting thing on this thread is the absence of comments from the many distance fanatics on this site. Is that because they don't want fanciers to know this is what they do?
i can only answer as my own opinion and experience,, i have often heard it said "good pigeons dont get ill" now off course any pigeon can get ill, but there is a certain amount of truth in this saying i,e constitution,, most good distance pigeons, seldom do get ill, to give you an instance , for about 6 years up till 1997 , i kept pigeons in a "yard "as many on this forum will know,in this" yard" there were greyhounds kept , there was a great circular saw going ,[cutting up logs] there were car repairs done , old cars piled on top of each other , motor bike repairs , more or less a scrap yard [to say the least ] there was three pigeon lofts ,,one outside tap which run in to a sink , with no outlet [in other words , stinking] this sink and tap was used by all, allthough i kept the inside of the loft , spotlessly clean and treated for nothing ,one pigeon in particular , who had a mind of his own , would walk under these cars [quite often oil marks on it] appear at the other loft [a member of this forum] at the opposite end of the" yard" feed on the mixture that was flicked or rolled out this members stock loft veranda[i used to joke with him asking him to step up the protein [osc ] then dissapear back under the cars, then appear at the sink, then to my horror would take a drink , there was no way of stopping this bird doing this , i couldnt cover it , other folks were using it , all i could do, was bring a 5 gall drum of water from my house a mile away, clean it the best i could then tip some milton in it ,, the only" treatment" this bird ever got was brewers yeast tablets and a clo oil capsule now and then , this pigeon was,,,,,,sir colin true, as can be verified ,, i also won the fed supreme averages,with approx 5,000 birds racing r,u to the gold cup three times also winning a 505 mile combine sartilly race,with another pigeon [these birds were liberated with the u n c my winning vel would have been 3d in the u n c , won all the club averages[old and young] every year in that 6 years [up to 700 birds away in club] one year winning 13 races out of a possible 17 races ,2cnd in another 2 [many other positions] these pigeons never ever were given any antibiotics, never wormed ,cocci, or cankered [droppings were regularly tested] the only thing was, the inside of the loft was cleaned every time i entered it,, many times a day, sprayed with virkon s regularly , with milton in the water , no yb or ob was tolerated that even looked slightly off [blinked ] these pigeons had the one thing that is lacking in pigeons today,, CONSTITUTION, WE CAN NEVER GO BACK TO THAT NOW,, THE DAMAGE IS DONE ,,,,with all the treatment through the years ,mostly willy nilly. and guessing. [a wide band antibiotic will cure all] have now rendered us with pigeons , that have poor constitution , that actually NEED treated , to be able to race,,,,,, i just wonder how long this will last
the thing is im not saying its the anwser to all solutions im saying that it produced results for my dad who had only one 2 races b4 that in 2 years and he tried this system sticking to it and the results showed ill be sticking with it as ive seen work and the only thing changed in the last 2 years was this system nothing else really
the thing is im not saying its the anwser to all solutions im saying that it produced results for my dad who had only one 2 races b4 that in 2 years and he tried this system sticking to it and the results showed ill be sticking with it as ive seen work and the only thing changed in the last 2 years was this system nothing else really
the thing is im not saying its the anwser to all solutions im saying that it produced results for my dad who had only one 2 races b4 that in 2 years and he tried this system sticking to it and the results showed ill be sticking with it as ive seen work and the only thing changed in the last 2 years was this system nothing else really
hi pigeon82 please dont think i am paying any dis-regard to you, quite the opposite in fact , i congratulate both you and your father on your excellent results , i also thank you for your input to the forum , which to me, has prooved, very interesting indeed and to win with pigeons to-day , your postings actually proove the point , i say the best of luck to you and your father , may you continue winning, if i were racing pigeons to-day and off course wanted to win, im afraid to say , i would have be honest ,and have to do something similar regards methods etc . the thing i was trying to explain , was, after a lifetime of racing,and keeping pigeons , i have seen many changes in the way we have moulded our modern day racing pigeons [all of us ] to what they are to-day, to-day we have losses that we cannot comprehend , we have deseases we cannot comprehend [and off course the hawk problem has gotten out of control] anti-biotics [allthough a great invention and typicaly made ,by a scotsman ,] have saved many human lives, when prescribed by a doctor,,, but could be the death of us, if used by us, willy nilly, which any decent doctor would off course not allow, the reason being, the same as our pigeons, our body or more to the point the pigeons body, contains good bacteria and bad bacteria , and when the bad bacteria beat the good bacteria ,the pigeon ,becomes ill , we now resort to very easily gotten antibiotics [some we know nothing about ,being laymen ] these anti-biotics will kill all bacteria ,,,good and bad , therefore lowering the birds immune system , over many years of doing this, at an abnormally high rate, [ some ,or even most fanciers,at least,,] in my opinion , have did exactly that, brought down the immune system in the pigeon , to what we have to-day i,e birds with un-naturaly lowered immune systems , being bred through and through them , for generations,,,,, deseases, mutating ,to fight the anti-biotic, this is where the vicious circle starts,, top avian vets and scientists are now producing different anti-biotics to combat this , off course the vicious circle carries on , and will continue to do so,in reality , we are too late to do anything about this ,,allthough ,it could be possible [very highly unlikely] as this would take more years to undo than it did to do. even treating for worms cocci, canker, more often than neccessary, will lower their resistence to fight these safe levels ,again breeding generations of birds incapable of fighting these safe levels that all pigeons have,,,,again the vicious circle ,, and all our own doing ,,,,we now need to treat , vaccinate , prop up, pigeons to have them win, but by doing so, allways going round this vicious circle,, kick against nature and it will kick back, this has most certainly prooved true in the last decade , i thank you for your contribution of your posting pigeon82 , anything discussed about pigeons is allways interesting and certainly makes a change from political arguements rife with us these days , my recipy for success is,, keep talking pigeons [the pigeons themselves] and you will win with pigeons good luck, and happy racing, to both you and your father kindest regards
god you touched my heart there jimmy that was just pure how can i put it without sounding like a prat one of the best posts ever thanks very much i ave actually split with my dad as partners and have moved to n/ireland so i got a different kettle of fish now to race againest but all should be fun thaanks again jimmy my regards to you phil
hi pigeon82 please dont think i am paying any dis-regard to you, quite the opposite in fact , i congratulate both you and your father on your excellent results , i also thank you for your input to the forum , which to me, has prooved, very interesting indeed and to win with pigeons to-day , your postings actually proove the point , i say the best of luck to you and your father , may you continue winning, if i were racing pigeons to-day and off course wanted to win, im afraid to say , i would have be honest ,and have to do something similar regards methods etc . the thing i was trying to explain , was, after a lifetime of racing,and keeping pigeons , i have seen many changes in the way we have moulded our modern day racing pigeons [all of us ] to what they are to-day, to-day we have losses that we cannot comprehend , we have deseases we cannot comprehend [and off course the hawk problem has gotten out of control] anti-biotics [allthough a great invention and typicaly made ,by a scotsman ,] have saved many human lives, when prescribed by a doctor,,, but could be the death of us, if used by us, willy nilly, which any decent doctor would off course not allow, the reason being, the same as our pigeons, our body or more to the point the pigeons body, contains good bacteria and bad bacteria , and when the bad bacteria beat the good bacteria ,the pigeon ,becomes ill , we now resort to very easily gotten antibiotics [some we know nothing about ,being laymen ] these anti-biotics will kill all bacteria ,,,good and bad , therefore lowering the birds immune system , over many years of doing this, at an abnormally high rate, [ some ,or even most fanciers,at least,,] in my opinion , have did exactly that, brought down the immune system in the pigeon , to what we have to-day i,e birds with un-naturaly lowered immune systems , being bred through and through them , for generations,,,,, deseases, mutating ,to fight the anti-biotic, this is where the vicious circle starts,, top avian vets and scientists are now producing different anti-biotics to combat this , off course the vicious circle carries on , and will continue to do so,in reality , we are too late to do anything about this ,,allthough ,it could be possible [very highly unlikely] as this would take more years to undo than it did to do. even treating for worms cocci, canker, more often than neccessary, will lower their resistence to fight these safe levels ,again breeding generations of birds incapable of fighting these safe levels that all pigeons have,,,,again the vicious circle ,, and all our own doing ,,,,we now need to treat , vaccinate , prop up, pigeons to have them win, but by doing so, allways going round this vicious circle,, kick against nature and it will kick back, this has most certainly prooved true in the last decade , i thank you for your contribution of your posting pigeon82 , anything discussed about pigeons is allways interesting and certainly makes a change from political arguements rife with us these days , my recipy for success is,, keep talking pigeons [the pigeons themselves] and you will win with pigeons good luck, and happy racing, to both you and your father kindest regards
That's exactly what I was tying to say, I think?Good on ye Jimmy.
if thats wat you were meant to say then at least people have good thoughts on ere thats the only reason i posted it to help people i wouldnt hide nething if you give a little you tend to get a little more info whicch helps along wayi hope everyone who tries something along these lines all the best it helped me and the father and hope it can help more there is nothing like competition
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Oops! sorry I just couldn't resist. Probably been done anyway!!!
only messin tell me more about your flights 
Site
] there was three pigeon lofts ,,one outside tap which run in to a sink , with no outlet [in other words , stinking] this sink and tap was used by all, allthough i kept the inside of the loft , spotlessly clean and treated for nothing ,one pigeon in particular , who had a mind of his own , would walk under these cars [quite often oil marks on it] appear at the other loft [a member of this forum] at the opposite end of the" yard" feed on the mixture that was flicked or rolled out this members stock loft veranda[i used to joke with him asking him to step up the protein 
AIM
Good on ye Jimmy.
