Pigeonbasics.com

Quoted from Larry Lucas

How are they doing, Vic? Recovered?

Sorry Larry, I haven't looked in on the Health slot lately. It seems the treatment has done a great job on them, and they are now really looking the part. I had a feeling there was something wrong with them during the racing season, as I could not get them on form, whatever I tried. They looked well, but there was something not quite there, if you know what I mean.  I am indeed grateful  to yourself and Gord for your assistance on the issue. Thanks again. Vic.  

Any noticeable frets show up in their flights Vic as I've heard it can knock a pigeon back for a day or two.

Hope you've got it sorted, many can learn through your experience.

Quoted from Tony C

Any noticeable frets show up in their flights Vic as I've heard it can knock a pigeon back for a day or two.

Hope you've got it sorted, many can learn through your experience.

  Tony, I haven't come across any yet. But any setbacks at all, I will  let everyone know. Cheers,Vic.

I found this very interesting (hope the link works)

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/.....Size=20&index=13

Quite right Tony,very interesting!!

Well Vic cards on the table someone I know had it and I had some of his birds in my loft. As a result I started vaccinating last year. I know parastop has been mentioned but when I looked at the problem the feedback I got was that it does not eradicate and the only way to do this is by innoculation. For what it's worth I baytril for ten days and then on day 11 innoculate. I'm due to start them shortly. Happy to take any advice as to a better method. It's a bit like measles thousands don't vaccinate because of fear of a child getting an adverse reaction, now there is a great fear of a large scale outbreak. Remember polio Vic you like i will probably have been vaccinated against it and polio was about when I was a boy; now it's very rare in this country. For me that's how 'typhus can be stopped but unfortunately you will have many who refuse to vaccinate. The years gone by of natural immunity in humans and animals are long gone; I'm afraid those that are now living into the eighties as a norm, are not getting there because of their natural immunity, it's because of the drugs and better nutrition they are getting to keep them alive.

I think the birds need to develop immunity to this. How that could be done in practice, I don't know.

Some research shows Salmonella bacteria use the body's first line of defence against it. Macrophages - 'the white blood cells' that engulf invaders like this -actually carry it across the gut wall into the lymphatic system, and some of these bacteria not only survive that, but also multiply inside the macrophage.

So would appear to be a job best done by antibodies? But how? There is another branch of the immune system called Natural Immunity where blank antibodies act just as if they are programmed against specific disease organisms. Winter reading perhaps?

Quoted from IB

I think the birds need to develop immunity to this. How that could be done in practice, I don't know.

Some research shows Salmonella bacteria use the body's first line of defence against it. Macrophages - 'the white blood cells' that engulf invaders like this -actually carry it across the gut wall into the lymphatic system, and some of these bacteria not only survive that, but also multiply inside the macrophage.

So would appear to be a job best done by antibodies? But how? There is another branch of the immune system called Natural Immunity where blank antibodies act just as if they are programmed against specific disease organisms. Winter reading perhaps?

>
Inoculation helps develop immunity? I'm reminded of one of my old scripture lessons, when we were talking about a tribe in Libya. Where they lived were several species of very poisonous snake and the local tribe became immune to their venom but outsiders tended to die from it. The immunity originally arose from being bitten. Following that track the obvious way is to allow 'typhus to run rife, that way we would eventually end up with some birds with immunity............ but there wouldn't be any fanciers left because most would be wiped out!!!

Quoted from Albear

>
Inoculation helps develop immunity? I'm reminded of one of my old scripture lessons, when we were talking about a tribe in Libya. Where they lived were several species of very poisonous snake and the local tribe became immune to their venom but outsiders tended to die from it. The immunity originally arose from being bitten. Following that track the obvious way is to allow 'typhus to run rife, that way we would eventually end up with some birds with immunity............ but there wouldn't be any fanciers left because most would be wiped out!!!

No, wasn't suggesting that, I was just thinking out loud, Albear, that it is a job for antibodies rather than antibiotics.

Puzzled why this hasn't shown up before? Colombovac do a UK-authorised in-activated paratyphus/typhoid VACCINE - 'Colombovac Paratyphus Suspension for Injection for Pigeons'. :-

http://www.vmd.gov.uk/espcsite/ProductListC.aspx

click on product name, and word document describes its use.

I was reading a thread about Immune boosting injections where Terry Mcarthy replied.
Just give them Levamisole thats what boosts the immune system very good after illness.
When are we going to learn natural products do nothing ive tried them and are a waste of time.
Garlic old wives tale Yogurt well thats the best joke of all when people buy this its got hardly any value at all left in it.
Vitimins another waste of time has it just comes out the other end. I think people need to wise up in a big way all these natural products are 99% waste of money. If a bird gets ill what do you treat with a clove of garlic or antibiotic and if people say garlic perhaps there the ones spreading the germs for failing to treat properly good grief the worlds too gullerble im afraid.
Winning week in week out on corn and water is long gone and anyone telling you different are a stranger to the truth its 2008 not the 1960s.

i read this and thought thats the best answer ive seen for a long time hope you dont mind me putting it on this thread Terry.
Also lets ask the Frank Taskers and the Stuart wilcox's of the forum do you treat bet the answer would be yes

Where can you get Levamisole from?

Quoted from Silverdale Lofts

I was reading a thread about Immune boosting injections where Terry Mcarthy replied.
Just give them Levamisole thats what boosts the immune system very good after illness.
When are we going to learn natural products do nothing ive tried them and are a waste of time.
Garlic old wives tale Yogurt well thats the best joke of all when people buy this its got hardly any value at all left in it.
Vitimins another waste of time has it just comes out the other end. I think people need to wise up in a big way all these natural products are 99% waste of money. If a bird gets ill what do you treat with a clove of garlic or antibiotic and if people say garlic perhaps there the ones spreading the germs for failing to treat properly good grief the worlds too gullerble im afraid.
Winning week in week out on corn and water is long gone and anyone telling you different are a stranger to the truth its 2008 not the 1960s.

i read this and thought thats the best answer ive seen for a long time hope you dont mind me putting it on this thread Terry.
Also lets ask the Frank Taskers and the Stuart wilcox's of the forum do you treat bet the answer would be yes

Levamisole is a wormer, if pigeons have worms it will boost them. There are fanciers now who give paramixo vaccine to boost heir yb they give at 4 week old and then just before racing. That's totally different to treating for 'typhus. I know of a fancier who told me he treated for baytril for a week sent his YB to the race and Topped the fed!!! That's a completley different tack ? Now I'm all for maintenance treatment.......... but using medicines for stimulating dead against

Well I'm 60 years of age now and reading all this, I'm totaly confused   thought I was never to old to learn but I think I must be past it now  

Quoted from lenwadebob

Well I'm 60 years of age now and reading all this, I'm totaly confused   thought I was never to old to learn but I think I must be past it now  

..............that's another one Bob don't use owt past its sell by date, that puts me out too, cause I'm only a few behind you.

Quoted from Silverdale Lofts

I was reading a thread about Immune boosting injections where Terry Mcarthy replied.
Just give them Levamisole thats what boosts the immune system very good after illness.
When are we going to learn natural products do nothing ive tried them and are a waste of time.
Garlic old wives tale Yogurt well thats the best joke of all when people buy this its got hardly any value at all left in it.
Vitimins another waste of time has it just comes out the other end. I think people need to wise up in a big way all these natural products are 99% waste of money. If a bird gets ill what do you treat with a clove of garlic or antibiotic and if people say garlic perhaps there the ones spreading the germs for failing to treat properly good grief the worlds too gullerble im afraid.
Winning week in week out on corn and water is long gone and anyone telling you different are a stranger to the truth its 2008 not the 1960s.

i read this and thought thats the best answer ive seen for a long time hope you dont mind me putting it on this thread Terry.
Also lets ask the Frank Taskers and the Stuart wilcox's of the forum do you treat bet the answer would be yes

The difference is they will treat but have a treatment plan and in the close season treat for nowt unless they have to due to serious illness or death

Quoted from Albear

..............that's another one Bob don't use owt past its sell by date, that puts me out too, cause I'm only a few behind you.

I thought the sell by date had long gone to be honest m8, They invented a timing system to help us old timers (ETS) just need a Smart Ass to invent a loft scraper now that doesn't need a human to operate it and i'll be well sorted. And they say your only as old as the woman you feel, so where did I go wrong  

Thankfully there is more than one view on how birds get ill, and how to treat them..

My view is that there appears to be birds that seem to have lost the ability to fight-off what should be routine microbes, on their own. If they can't do that, in my opinion they have little chance of surviving a close encounter with 'serious stuff' - like Salmonella, the subject of this thread.

I would not and do not medicate healthy pigeons, and by definition pigeons that need constant medication cannot be considered healthy. I have not been able to find out the long-term effect of prophylactic use (routine antibiotic treatment of healthy animals) on the animals' immune system but I suspect that it will be negative - at the very least they will eventually carry microbes that are immune to all these routine medications.

I've just spent about 30 minutes typing a reply to previous postings. And woosh!ALL GONE This really does annoy, me so  I  will make this one short.  Since the treatment of 12 days Baytril and two vaccinations, one in between the 12 day Baytril treatment , MY birds are now absolutely brilliant! Wattles have the chalky whiteness back, but above all  the body "feeling" has been the most remarkable difference. This is a sickness that one would think we should notice, but for some strange reason. I didn't. It seems to take over so slowly somehow. Hard to explain!  Vic.

Vic just to say im glad that your birds are fine now and thanks for your openess and honesty about the illness

Quoted from Vic

I've just spent about 30 minutes typing a reply to previous postings. And woosh!ALL GONE This really does annoy, me so  I  will make this one short.  Since the treatment of 12 days Baytril and two vaccinations, one in between the 12 day Baytril treatment , MY birds are now absolutely brilliant! Wattles have the chalky whiteness back, but above all  the body "feeling" has been the most remarkable difference. This is a sickness that one would think we should notice, but for some strange reason. I didn't. It seems to take over so slowly somehow. Hard to explain!  Vic.

The thing is Vic alot of pigeons with the disease dont show any signs thats why its so hard to spot. Just out of interest, what Vaccination did you use, as i read you vaccinated imbetween the treatement of baytril and was wondering was this something that was suggested by the vaccination ect? The only reason i ask is because over the years ive vaccinated this isnot a practice i have used?