Pigeonbasics.com

might be only a tablet / powder form here but may be a vaccine in Belguim or author has it wrong , intresting thread tho

Quoted from Vic

Cards on the table time surely! There are far too many phonies in this game of ours, that will never reveal, anything within their lofts , be it good or bad. Who ever would reveal any infections whatsoever in their loft,  if like some, have a ludicrous return on the selling of pigeons. Shooting oneself in the foot comes to mind! They also reveal themselves by the way, with numereous videos and dvd's with only 50% of truthness.


    More to come.    

never a truer word spoken ,,[someone at my door   answer shortly   ]

Don't open it Jim! It maybe one of the big fat greedy wolves. that thrive on PIGEON CHAT. LOL.

and.....................................they can blow. lol.

The main treatment has finished, now on the pro-biotics for 10 days continually. one or two droppings not up to standard. will keep all informed to the end , good or bad. Vic.  

Good luck, Vic.

parastop is a antibiotic nothing else and in my opinion a poor substute to fural para injections do nothing im afraid i used the pmv and youngbird sickness vaccine annd did it stop yb sickness no best treatment for paratythoid is fural baytrill colitrine enroxill

Bit late, mate. Don.t you think, Vic has taken the bulls by their horns  this time. I do honestly
believe, that I am heliping others out . Oh! For the good old days. When we had a bit of canker etc, now and then. Since, we have needled them, our problems have increased, and some wallets have gone fatter.

All birds looking immaculate presently.Two wet perches. Loose droppings! Why? Maybe because of the the treatment. I'll sort it, one way or the other.

scotch mist methinks

CAN IT BE STOPPED? WELL UNFORTUNATELY IT CANNOT!
But what can be done is for us all to take a look at trying to understand it, how it and when it comes about and what we can do to try to reduce its chances of ruining a family of racing pigeons.The DVD by Henk de Weerdt goes a long way in allowing us to see how, why and when this severe bacterial infection strikes within a loft.Its not about laziness or the feeding of cheap foods.On the DVD he shows us a pigeon suffering from paratyphoid and what happens when a fancier allows it to infiltrate a loft of pigeons and go untreated. One word gentlemen DEATH. There is time now to get ready for the 2009 season, listen to this knowledgeable vets advice and soon after the moult is finished get them treat and then vaccinate against it, yes I hear your cry's of what another injection? but in my opinion this is more important than paramyxo. Q.When you started racing this season where you 20-25minutes behind? and as the races got longer your birds went even further behind, yes you treat them with everything under the kitchen sink? yeah! they were still behind were'nt they?Why did they not respond to treatment? simply because they were carrying parathyphus in their bloodstream.Listen lads do it right get the DVD (thanks to Dave Allen for a wonderful, factual promotion) get the products and get back on the winners table.RR.

Quoted from Vic

All birds looking immaculate presently.Two wet perches. Loose droppings! Why? Maybe because of the the treatment. I'll sort it, one way or the other.

Wondered at probiotics for 10 days? Back in my yoghurt days, 3-days-once-a-month was my maximum as I found that birds got loose droppings after that.

Now on Flightpath, and its a one-day-once-a-month thing. Makers also say fully re-colonised after 24 hours so 10 days does appear OTT.

At one teaspoon per gallon PrimaLac can be used daily, if desired. I use it daily during breeding season as young pigeons develop beautiful feather. I discovered this when reading a university study on the use of PrimaLac with Bob White Quail chicks. Another benefit is good bacteria are excreted into the loft in the droppings creating a hostile environment for Salmonella. Thanks to Dr. Gord Chalmers for this tip.

While yoghurt contains active bacteria that is helpful to the birds, the lactose can produce loose droppings. In addition, the sugars can be counterproductive if a problem with ecoli exists as these bacteria feed on the sugars.

vets usually constitute failed graduates who were not clever enough to become surgeons, doctors or solicitors, however the ideas of earning big bucks still gives them license to do so. You take my vet, does'nt matter what animal or vertibrae you take to him for diagnostic treatment (1) he cannot handle the animal/bird but still charges you £17.50 FOR THE PRIVELIDGE OF YOU HANDLING YOUR OWN BIRD/ANIMAL (2) then follows some grunts, groans followed many referrals to a book, then looks over the top of his glasses, with the look like a well intoxicated Steven Fry then coughs and says "It maybe this or could be that, its hard to say, what do you usually treat them with".
This follows by him stabbing the keyboard of an old MK1 Computer and then pushes you through a sliding door into what was an old broom cupboard, after about 10 minutes and old woman leaning on a mop the best side of 70+ smoking a fag, snarls she won't be long love she gone toilet, she's had the trots all day.(watery droppings eh ?) Putting in an appearance this pale faced woman comes to the counter ans says that will be £43.87 love, followed by my shreiks of "HOW MUCH"? I dont make the prices up love, he does now do you want this stuff or not, I'm not hear to argue. I am not joking its like something you'd watch on the telly, its a good job we northerners have a sense of humour.Well SENSE is what we were all blessed with from birth, so lets put it to some common use and stop putting monies in the pockets of the white coated charlatans?

Quoted from roy rogers

vets usually constitute failed graduates who were not clever enough to become surgeons, doctors or solicitors, however the ideas of earning big bucks still gives them license to do so. You take my vet, does'nt matter what animal or vertibrae you take to him for diagnostic treatment (1) he cannot handle the animal/bird but still charges you £17.50 FOR THE PRIVELIDGE OF YOU HANDLING YOUR OWN BIRD/ANIMAL (2) then follows some grunts, groans followed many referrals to a book, then looks over the top of his glasses, with the look like a well intoxicated Steven Fry then coughs and says "It maybe this or could be that, its hard to say, what do you usually treat them with".
This follows by him stabbing the keyboard of an old MK1 Computer and then pushes you through a sliding door into what was an old broom cupboard, after about 10 minutes and old woman leaning on a mop the best side of 70+ smoking a fag, snarls she won't be long love she gone toilet, she's had the trots all day.(watery droppings eh ?) Putting in an appearance this pale faced woman comes to the counter ans says that will be £43.87 love, followed by my shreiks of "HOW MUCH"? I dont make the prices up love, he does now do you want this stuff or not, I'm not hear to argue. I am not joking its like something you'd watch on the telly, its a good job we northerners have a sense of humour.Well SENSE is what we were all blessed with from birth, so lets put it to some common use and stop putting monies in the pockets of the white coated charlatans?

Luckily, not had same experience as yourself. First had cause to visit a vet in 2004, he was very up-front and told me he knew nothing about birds - but referred me to a vet that did, he phoned them and my bird was seen same day.

Consulted that avian vet twice since, maximum charge was £30 in 2004 - and that was for the Lab expenses for growing-on a bacterial culture in attempt to identify the pathogen.

On handling; must agree with your own vet here, mine did the same, I held the bird while he did what was necessary; I think it's common sense really, bird will be stressed-out enough with procedures etc, without being handled by a stranger too.

Quoted from roy rogers

vets usually constitute failed graduates who were not clever enough to become surgeons, doctors or solicitors

a vet would  technicaly be more qualified than a doctor they have to learn the anatomy of many animals , not just one like the doctor has i cant see why a failed graduate at law says sod this 3 year course to start  a 7 year course to be a Vet , just doesnt add up , can see a vet becoming a doctor but not the other way round

Quoted from Larry Lucas

At one teaspoon per gallon PrimaLac can be used daily, if desired. I use it daily during breeding season as young pigeons develop beautiful feather. I discovered this when reading a university study on the use of PrimaLac with Bob White Quail chicks. Another benefit is good bacteria are excreted into the loft in the droppings creating a hostile environment for Salmonella. Thanks to Dr. Gord Chalmers for this tip.

While yoghurt contains active bacteria that is helpful to the birds, the lactose can produce loose droppings. In addition, the sugars can be counterproductive if a problem with ecoli exists as these bacteria feed on the sugars.

As before, Larry, I find your views thought-provoking.

My understanding of gut microflora is that it is all about checks & balances between the different colonies. I understand that there are around 400 different strains each having around 1000 members present? Of these Lactobacteria form just part - what percentage I don't know, but I do know that not all bacteria produce Lactic Acid.

Agree that Lactic Acid has action on transit.  Biology at school taught that that was down to peristalsis - rythmic flexing of the gut pushing contents forward (and if you are really unlucky anti-peristalsis will bring it all back up) but Lactic Acid must act as a sort of catalyst, too much production as you say (from the Lactobacteria) will cause loose droppings - and too little will cause constipation, or perhaps those sticky droppings members have asked about elsewhere on the Site. So 'balance' must be right at all times.

But there must be trade-off, because Lactic Acid lowers gut pH which makes it a hostile environment for some of our birds' pathogens. And so to yoghurt which has both lactobacteria that turned the milk sour (turning it to yoghurt) and lactic acid, which is the sour taste. All bacteria need sugars - ooliwhatsits - the trick I'm told is to make 'the food source' available only to the normal gut microflora - there in numbers, and not the pathogens, preferably not there at all.

So going back to Vic's loose droppings. Could these be down to an imbalance in gut flora - too much lactobacteria, and not enough of the other types? Perhaps caused by PrimaLac which appears to be only Lactobacteria? And in my case too, by the yoghurt - which also appears to be only Lactobacteria - over too many days?

FlightPath claims it contains the full pigeon gut microflora, although it does not list them..

[face=Arial][/face]paratyphoid is salmonella which has penetrated the intestine wall and is in the bloodstream and then goes to joints and finally the brain causing the twisting necks.

Hi Guys, I didn't like the idea of having the thread removed, considering the interest that was shown by  the rank and file of members. Many have sent messages, one way or another, stating their concern on the subject.  With a thread that has over 4,000 views ,it should not have been  removed from its original placing, because some novices (pc wise) will be scratching their heads where it went to. This paratyphoid infection could be the final nail in the pigeon flyers coffin, remember that!  I have had no twisted necks etc. becase it is completely different to Paramyxo as somebody suggests. Birds looking well, can die within 24-48 hours without showing a leading up sympton. I am no novice by the way, and my birds over the years, have always been in peak condition. But mark my words! This is something that will give you all nightmares, if your birds contact it.      

May I add that, the loose droppings from the two cocks are starting to firm up. May I also add, there is a big difference between a sloppy dropping and a wet dropping.  Paramyxo droppings are mainly just liquid. Whereas in my mind, a sloppy dropping leaves a wet stain when removed. If the treatment, I have subjected my birds to, does the trick. It may, I hope, help some other pigeon flyers out, in the future.