Pigeonbasics.com

Quoted from bewted

but,,,theres allways the oddball of nature !!!

There are some basic rules that cannot be broken. Mr Lucas has thrown some smoke screens into his piece. Yes there are gene crossovers between chromosomes but in single cells only: a single cell can divide to make 2; 2 divide to make 4; etc but 2 of these multiplying groups of cells cannot merge to make 1, if it did you would expect a duplex individual - 2 heads, 4 wings, 4 legs etc., 2 hearts etc.

The best human example is the down syndrome child - known as the child with something extra - the something extra is an extra chromosome which causes physical and learning difficulties in a person with this condition.

There's also the horse mule / ass? because of the different number of chromosomes the resultant offspring is sterile, and cannot reproduce itself. Got to obey the basic laws of nature?

from reading the article in the first post.I took it that the hen that produced mosaic's failed to produce the chemical that stopped other sperms fertalising the egg's ,thus enabling another sperm to enter and fertalise.I dont pretend to understand most of it i just try and get the basic priciples then throw idea's about to see if they work .

Quoted from IB

There are some basic rules that cannot be broken. Mr Lucas has thrown some smoke screens into his piece. Yes there are gene crossovers between chromosomes but in single cells only: a single cell can divide to make 2; 2 divide to make 4; etc but 2 of these multiplying groups of cells cannot merge to make 1, if it did you would expect a duplex individual - 2 heads, 4 wings, 4 legs etc., 2 hearts etc.

The best human example is the down syndrome child - known as the child with something extra - the something extra is an extra chromosome which causes physical and learning difficulties in a person with this condition.

There's also the horse mule / ass? because of the different number of chromosomes the resultant offspring is sterile, and cannot reproduce itself. Got to obey the basic laws of nature?

IB, sorry, but I did not write the article -- no smoke screen there. My PhD is not in genetics, but Dr. Gibson is somewhat familiar with the subject -- he is the author of "Genetics of Pigeons" and other journal articles on the subject.  He and W.F. Hollander have done some of the best work on pigeon genetics for the fancy. I think if you re-read what I posted you will find he is describing what occurs within pigeons genetically to account for the mosaic pattern. The information he provides seems to suggest that a crossover fusion is at the heart of the matter. For what it is worth, people are free to take it or leave it.

Quoted from IB

Yes there are gene crossovers between chromosomes but in single cells only: a single cell can divide to make 2; 2 divide to make 4; etc but 2 of these multiplying groups of cells cannot merge to make 1, if it did you would expect a duplex individual - 2 heads, 4 wings, 4 legs etc., 2 hearts etc.

But that is possible also, you get conjoined twins  

Quoted from Larry Lucas

IB, sorry, but I did not write the article -- no smoke screen there. My PhD is not in genetics, but Dr. Gibson is somewhat familiar with the subject -- he is the author of "Genetics of Pigeons" and other journal articles on the subject.  He and W.F. Hollander have done some of the best work on pigeon genetics for the fancy. I think if you re-read what I posted you will find he is describing what occurs within pigeons genetically to account for the mosaic pattern. The information he provides seems to suggest that a crossover fusion is at the heart of the matter. For what it is worth, people are free to take it or leave it.

Sorry, I did not mean to infer that you had introduced a smokescreen, rather that the article you posted seemed to fudge some issues, e.g. on the viability of 'beings' having incorrect numbers of chromosomes. My reading is that he is suggesting that a single egg is fertilised by two seperate sperm to form two seperate 'beings' which then fuse to become one. How that could happen in the first place (polyspermy) and then to produce only the colour of two seperate 'beings' - without their limbs or organs - seems to me to be an inconvenient fact conveniently left out. The lay persons guide to these things seems to support that two sperm fertilizing one ovum (in any organism) is still considered against the general laws of nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyspermy

Quoted from DOVEScot

But that is possible also, you get conjoined twins  

Conjoined twins are the incomplete seperation of one fertilised egg which has begun to split into two, to form two seperate individuals, twins. It is not two seperate eggs or individuals trying to merge into one, as is  being proposed here (I think) in the formation of a mosiac pigeon.

Quoted from IB

Conjoined twins are the incomplete seperation of one fertilised egg which has begun to split into two, to form two seperate individuals, twins. It is not two seperate eggs or individuals trying to merge into one, as is  being proposed here (I think) in the formation of a mosiac pigeon.

True but then maybe the other is somewhat possible as well

Quoted from sir_nico

hi everyone...what do you call this color

cheerss

They look like dominant opals.

What colour are their parents, are the youngsters cocks or hens, from the same parents?  A bit of history would be helpful.

they also won't be the same colour now they've moulted!
Any upto date pics?

I have since changed my mind and they are recessive opals. I have one very similar.

This is a dominant opal hen.

Michael, Would a pair of recessive opals breed more opals, if not what would you pair together to breed opals ?.

Quoted from TERRY JOHNSON

Michael, Would a pair of recessive opals breed more opals, if not what would you pair together to breed opals ?.

Can ANYONE tell me how to breed opals ?

hAVE A READ

http://www.angelfire.com/ga/huntleyloft/recopal.html

Thanks for that Redcheqhen I had a quick glance but too complicated for my little brain -- can anyone put it in simpler terms.?

Quoted from TERRY JOHNSON

Michael, Would a pair of recessive opals breed more opals, if not what would you pair together to breed opals ?.

A pair of recessive opals will breed nothing but opals.

If you paired an opal to a blue you would have to pair one of the resulting young back to the opal parent or another youngster bred from an opal to get opals.

I'll be trying that -- thanks Beautyhomer

Terry only just seen your question. I think it has been answered above.

Quoted from Michael J Burden

This is a dominant opal hen.

Is that yours Michael ?