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Quoted from OLDYELLOW

it's abred from Van Loon silver shadow lines but definately a cross and is  Offered by Jaap Van Alphen.

yeah, definately cross. got white Delbar cock from Jaap Van Alphen last Blackpool Show Jan. 2008. Got grizzle yb off it. Really look nice.

In belgium/holland they used to cross the van loons into the birds of albert van de flaes, the van de flaes pigeons were mostly reds the base of these were direct jansens...Could be the same lines???

what concerns me is that what ever the colour is when a bird of any breeding comes good on market everyone has them sells them if you take orial black pirds years ago a fancier used to go round buying any pieds he could as they were the vouge then and they become orial black pieds same with rolands if red grizzle or other colour roland janson till you breed from them but by then you spent youer money sad but true???

ive had loads of them white grizzles blue grizzles red grizzles iron grizzles black grizzles all my red grizzles have come mainly via a dark grizzle which silver shadow was a lot of mine were crossed in the end with the ejakamp janseenns the more common colour from the silver shadow vanloons are white grizzles

most of u are right in fact there not really vanloons wen vanloon sold out to planet bros apparently he only kept a few bk for himself he then bought some other birds in and crossed them with his vanloons im led to beleve they were the tounier grizzles so now u have the vanloon grizzles remember as soon as a bird enters there lofts regardless of wat strain it is it then becomes one of theres so takes the owners name

Quoted from terry mccarthy

most of u are right in fact there not really vanloons wen vanloon sold out to planet bros apparently he only kept a few bk for himself he then bought some other birds in and crossed them with his vanloons im led to beleve they were the tounier grizzles so now u have the vanloon grizzles remember as soon as a bird enters there lofts regardless of wat strain it is it then becomes one of theres so takes the owners name

people will pay a fortune for these so called pedigree birds on the continent and all of them are crossed with other winners regardless of names !!!

makes you laugh dont it,,,if you cross a bird here in uk most fanciers dont want to know,,,,,cross it in the belgium or similar country and its worth a fortune and comes with pedigree !!!!

one thing for sure the birds are the nuts if u get the right ones i won most thing with mine but they do like a very hard day not very often u will get them on a blow home unlike the original vanloons

Most be a cross. I've got a silver shadow grizzle Van loon hen from ponderosa lines. Paired her to a red van loon and they have chucked out one bird thats the spit of his dad and is red and a normal grizzle hen

Im not 100% but i think you will find that the silver shadow van-loons also have the Tounier lines in there make up and this is where the grizzle colour comes from.

I was offered a red mosaic Van Loon cock a couple of years back by a Mr & Mrs Carr of Dundee who used to adertise Planet Van Loons on a semi-regular basis in the BHW (as well as the old Corbetts) and it set the alarm bells ringing, so I phoned up Gary Planet and I asked him if it was possible and he said yes indeed, and that from time to time, the family would throw up reds and mosaics, especially when pairing the Scrumpy x Thunderbird and Whiteflight bloodlines particularely closely together, but I don't think these are the same reds as those being advertised by Jaap on Elimar, which upon inspecting the pedigrees, have definitely got a splash of the old Tournier in them.