Pigeonbasics.com

wasn't there a link recently mentioning stray catchers selling birds for resteraunt trade?
There is a market for them, lead free!

Quoted from pjc

However you look at it, culls are culls, breeders of fancy pigeons as with any pigeons only keep the best so passing or selling on culls does nothing for the sport or the breed only to give people the option to obtain poor stock to breed poor quality birds etc etc!
Sorry if they are not A1 they should be binned!

Phil

I disagree Phil. People who breed to show obviously shouldnt keep birds not up to show standard because of limited room etc, but birds that aren't up to standard shouldnt automatically be binned. What about new fanciers and youngsters who just want a few pretty birds to look at? Why should they buy show quality birds at show quality prices? I started off in this hobby buying poor quality birds from the local auction. Because of the number of different breeds available it kept me interested all these years. Ive never had an interest in showing so poor quality birds are fine by me, as long as they are healthy and look nice!!!

Just my opinion  

Lee

I know what your saying Lee.
I have seen many people like yourself that have started with birds that they have been told are "good" but having no intention of doing anything with them.
After a couple of years, there intersest has increased and they decide to try showing, racing etc to find what they always thought were "good" to be absolute rubbish.
If you are going to start with pigeons then start with good ones, over the years I've given many birds to new starters and they have all been birds that would have stayed if space allowed and not birds that should have been disposed of.

Phil

Quoted from pjc

I know what your saying Lee.
I have seen many people like yourself that have started with birds that they have been told are "good" but having no intention of doing anything with them.
After a couple of years, there intersest has increased and they decide to try showing, racing etc to find what they always thought were "good" to be absolute rubbish.
If you are going to start with pigeons then start with good ones, over the years I've given many birds to new starters and they have all been birds that would have stayed if space allowed and not birds that should have been disposed of.

Phil

Feel personally that 'Cost Effective' is best Phil.
Why?
Well I believe that the first off they are to get the basic raw enjoyment.
Secondarily they learn as a better rate, and get to know the ropes and realism. Great flyer, whom I visited and was related, once spent all day telling me nowt! As I left he said 'Disappointed in not learning any thing'! I replied 'True'
He replied, 'Go out and enjoy them, make the mistakes, and do as you dream / wish, for you will in any case, then come back in three years and we really get down to the nitty gritty'. He was right, novices tend to listen any and every body and then do their own thing, naturally. But is better cost efective.
They learn quick enough to part with their hard earnt cash.
Further may I also add here what a'Great' told me....... 'If they 'Have got it' they tend to shine within three years. Yes those with a good tutor early on, doing the tried and tested methods. Sure they change a bit here and there, but............ JMO

Not everyone wants show stock and show fanciers rarely give away their best stock but the ones they do not keep are not far off the mark sometimes and may throw good ones in turn and may just get newbes interested.

CHAIRDE (FRIENDS) I have followed this thread and some very fair comments about dealers fancy/show breeders  homers tipplers and culling and do you know what I think you are all RIGHT I started a loft for my grandson now age 20 months Jack loves his fantails garden and Indian they are all colours  and if they happen to inter-breed so what Jack likes them and that's whats IMPORTANT TO ME our Indians may or may not be show quality we don't care Jack arrives at my home each morning grandda grandda I'm taken by the hand and out to the loft you cant say to a child like Jack at his age keep looking in the sky that wee dot is your tipplers or your homers will be coming soon if when older if he wants tipplers homers or any other breed he'll get them likewise to the fancy/show breeder anything below standard gets culled
let me tell you of a friend of mine lives in Belfast keeps homers and that's his thing went on holiday and asked his brother to look after his birds    long story cut short      
I asked his brother why he killed 47 of his brothers birds his reply
Mick when a bomb went of in town you seen birds  flying everywhere
when I slammed the door on that loft
any bird that never left its perch
you wont win races with them
I wrong their necks
now I read treads about homers and going by some members say
young birds that may not show a lot in their first year
sometimes come good and winners as older birds  
likewise some starting of needing their young birds as breeding stock
and go on to win with their young the next year
a bit of food for thought I think
micko  

Micko, i'll tell you the opposite, I went to a guys loft at Leighton Buzzard, he's won more than most in his area both north and south.
When he took me into his loft he said watch this, now bare in mind i was a stranger in the loft, he dropped from height the food hopper onto the floor and not a single bird flinched.
He would not tollerate a nervous bird as it would upset the loft and his family were all Janseen based which are often highly strung!

Phil

Quoted from pjc

Micko, i'll tell you the opposite, I went to a guys loft at Leighton Buzzard, he's won more than most in his area both north and south.
When he took me into his loft he said watch this, now bare in mind i was a stranger in the loft, he dropped from height the food hopper onto the floor and not a single bird flinched.
He would not tollerate a nervous bird as it would upset the loft and his family were all Janseen based which are often highly strung!

Phil

YOU WERENT FAR FROM ME AT LEIGHTON BUZZARD ,,,PJC !!!

some people just like a few fancy bird flying out and dont want to pay fancy prices for show standard birds ,

Ted you'll know who i'm talking about then, Claude Wheeler!

Quoted from nutverlal

Right
Let's clear the air

I am always looking for fancy breeds for my private loft.

If on occassions I get other breeds (tipplers, tumblers etc) I do sell or give them to other fanciers.

So the best way to describe this would be " I am a dealer "

I hope this finally clears any misunderstanding or misrepresentations.

simple,,,, buy or dont    [or better still barter ]

Quoted from kirky

some people just like a few fancy bird flying out and dont want to pay fancy prices for show standard birds ,

the price for me wasnt a big thing check my post asking for indians
seeing Jack happy with birds he can handle was important for me
in a roundabout way and if you read the post after mine what i would consider a good bird something multi-coloured Jack can lift hand-feed and follows him around the yard haha
i consider that a GREAT bird because thats what i want
show /fancy breeder may tell you THATS WOULDNT MEET THE SHOW STANDARD each to their own they meet my standards and needs micko

Quoted from pjc

Ted you'll know who i'm talking about then, Claude Wheeler!

i dont know him personaly,but,hear plenty of good stories about him and the one about what you said was true !!!!

Quoted from micko

the price for me wasnt a big thing check my post asking for indians
seeing Jack happy with birds he can handle was important for me
in a roundabout way and if you read the post after mine what i would consider a good bird something multi-coloured Jack can lift hand-feed and follows him around the yard haha
i consider that a GREAT bird because thats what i want
show /fancy breeder may tell you THATS WOULDNT MEET THE SHOW STANDARD each to their own they meet my standards and needs micko

Couldn't agree more. The wee pigeon caters for all our needs be it winning, amusing or just sheer pleasure of admiring. Don't knock anyone for the way they use their birds just be thankful that some people way back in time were not prejudice and curious enough to enhance certain traits to keep us all happy. Some colours etc. don't show until 2nd 3rd moult so if breeders had always culled then this would not have been discovered but probably passed a bird on to a novice to find it had developed into something quite different in a couple of years. To be honest I do not like a lot of the standard breeds to me they are ugly and not an improvement on the original stock but that's just my opinion and I don't think it matters as they obviously fulfil a different taste to mine. Character is sometimes ovrlooked as well, I think a birds character is more important than looks. I do not mind people selling on here as long as they are genuine and don't rip people off and of course the birds are in good health and well looked after. Some areas of the U.K. do not have a lot of birds available so birds have to be bought elsewhere. No matter what value or worth is put on a prize racer or poorly marked show bird its welfare should always be paramount.

Sorry but i would not give my birds to a dealer if they are no good for me then they are no good for anyone else its these people that give us in the fancy a bad name by selling other peoples rubbish what they dont want.  I have seena lot of threads with photos of so called fancy pigeons crap birds what I wouldnt give a tuppence for if someone wants a good start there are genuine fanciers out there that will help start a new and upcoming fancier into pigeon showing, the most I have paid for a fancy pigeon that was from a top breeder was 10 pounds and this bird had done well at champ level too and have had lots given all of show quality. I feel if a new fancier is coming into our sport you have to keep them interested not by giving them rubbish but by giving them a good start. We have recently started a young girl up with a pair of quality wests we gave her them as well, these birds will do very well as they have been shown previously at top level too. alot of you may disagree with my post but we are all entitled to an opinion  

I agree wit what you have said Kia as im starting in showing and wouldnt like someone parting company with crap birds and passing them on to people that want to get into the sport i am having a couple pairs of Old German Owls of PJC but i have been informed by a lot of people that hes birds are of top quality so have no problem taking these birds from him.

Spot on Kia! Nobody needs to charge a newcomer anything for a quality start.
If somebody start with rubbish as pets and gains interest wanting then to have a go at shows etc, how dissapointed will they be then when they are told by a judge that there pride and joy's are only fit for one purpose?

Just for you Tomo

Quoted from pjc

Spot on Kia! Nobody needs to charge a newcomer anything for a quality start.
If somebody start with rubbish as pets and gains interest wanting then to have a go at shows etc, how dissapointed will they be then when they are told by a judge that there pride and joy's are only fit for one purpose?

Just for you Tomo

is that an old dutch owl  in the photo ?

Old German owl, as is this:-

Also sometimes refered to as German Shield Owls