Pigeonbasics.com

Quoted from dignity DAZ

For my money most losses are due to poor health.

Need to treat regular for canker and cocci especialy when racing. i think young bird losses would be down if most people did this.

With present day methods, and the darkness ybs looking so immaculate, with a super duper  glow (appearence) about  them. How could anybody say "treat 'em".  I know who needs treating, and it's not the ybs! lol.

Your feeding will possibily dictate how well your birds race,but as being responsible for losses,dont think so,still mantain its down to too many inferior birds being bred,and regardless of what effort you put into these,ya cant make a slik puse out of a sows ear,they dont have IT in general what it takes,the more you breed and fly,the bigger your losses

I,ve been training my young birds this year and water training on lib site 12 to 13 birds per basket
still can only 1 or 2 birds to take drink even when i drop a bit of hemp in the drinker it seem only the
dominant ones take a drink ?

Quoted from wings

Need to treat regular for canker and cocci especialy when racing. i think young bird losses would be down if most people did this.

Hi I rarely treat for cocci I believe it's a secondary illness and you won't get a great imbalance in any other circumstance except a damp / wet loft where the cocci can thrive. In deed I am aware that some fanciers use cocci treatment to boost their birds performance!
Vic agree with you I've never basket trained, in fact my yb will not have been in the basket until this morning when I go up shortly to take them for their first toss.
One important factor we forget when we look back and consider the ways of the 70's etc is the different culture we have toward health and medicine. People are living longer now, children are surviving birth that they would never have done 40 /50 years ago because of advances in medicine and technology. Those that are surviving longer however still have huge health issues, taking tablets for this that and the other but it helps them survive, which we all want!
It's the same with the birds we have all these medicines available to ordinary guys which we could never have afforded or sourced a generation back. Now though we can keep our birds healthy (on the surface) using them. However whereas us humans who are surviving longer; no longer have to carry out the arduous task of our younger days, our birds do! If as humans we were plying ourselves with all these drugs and still expecting to do a days work down the pit or in the steel works, survival rates would dip dramatically. I believe this is the samewith our birds we are dosing them p to maintain health but they are breaking down under the strain.
It's a viscious circle because today we live in a society that has to contend with super bugs like Cdif, to win at times you need to medicate but it's getting the balance and I think that is really difficult. There are far more pigeons today and I do believe in a peverse way they are better pigeons than we had 50 years ago, with the caveat that they are better sprint pigeons and the distance birds that we have brought in from the continent are faster pigeons at 500/700 mile. But sadly the old British long distance birds bred to come in adverse weather have been bred out and these are the pigeons we could do with today. I think Chris Gordon has it right he is breeding from the old English distance strains crosed with the speed of the Belgians and he should breed some with that hardy element of always coming when it's tough but with slightly more speed.
And if anyone knows someone down here in Devon / Somerset who has these British strains that still win from Thurso and Lerwick please let me know.
I believe you must have quality birds first and foremost but if the health is no good you won't win, but healthy birds of poor quality will never win. If you can master the art of feeding then that is an added advantage you have, but for me quality and health first and worry about precision feeding when you're consistently Knocking at the door.
The bottom line in all this is breeding and the art of selection, to get quality birds you must be able to select or perhaps rely on your wallet.

Quoted from Merlin

Your feeding will possibily dictate how well your birds race,but as being responsible for losses,dont think so,still mantain its down to too many inferior birds being bred,and regardless of what effort you put into these,ya cant make a slik puse out of a sows ear,they dont have IT in general what it takes,the more you breed and fly,the bigger your losses

Think your right Merlin not so much down to the feeding more like too many inferior birds being bred there has always been yb losses but I think many over the years have come away from the more selective breeding years ago many didnt breed the sort of teams people are racing now most couldnt afford to  Think too many now are breeding quantity and not quality and i cant see how if you got a big team of ybs you can look at what you got the only way you can do it is by putting them in the basket and letting that do it for you  Have to agree with what cosmodriver says as well seen too many birds that shouldnt even be going perhaps because we seem to have the attitude now of if its there its got to go and when you see that its not hard to understand why they dont see the birds anymore but thats down to bad fanciers not bad pigeons

The best way to train youngbirds is from weaning.
Wean them into a training crate/basket for a week where they will learn to feed and drink, after this they will never be nervous or afraid of the basket.

Phil

Quoted from Albear

Hi I rarely treat for cocci I believe it's a secondary illness and you won't get a great imbalance in any other circumstance except a damp / wet loft where the cocci can thrive. In deed I am aware that some fanciers use cocci treatment to boost their birds performance!
Vic agree with you I've never basket trained, in fact my yb will not have been in the basket until this morning when I go up shortly to take them for their first toss.
One important factor we forget when we look back and consider the ways of the 70's etc is the different culture we have toward health and medicine. People are living longer now, children are surviving birth that they would never have done 40 /50 years ago because of advances in medicine and technology. Those that are surviving longer however still have huge health issues, taking tablets for this that and the other but it helps them survive, which we all want!
It's the same with the birds we have all these medicines available to ordinary guys which we could never have afforded or sourced a generation back. Now though we can keep our birds healthy (on the surface) using them. However whereas us humans who are surviving longer; no longer have to carry out the arduous task of our younger days, our birds do! If as humans we were plying ourselves with all these drugs and still expecting to do a days work down the pit or in the steel works, survival rates would dip dramatically. I believe this is the samewith our birds we are dosing them p to maintain health but they are breaking down under the strain.
It's a viscious circle because today we live in a society that has to contend with super bugs like Cdif, to win at times you need to medicate but it's getting the balance and I think that is really difficult. There are far more pigeons today and I do believe in a peverse way they are better pigeons than we had 50 years ago, with the caveat that they are better sprint pigeons and the distance birds that we have brought in from the continent are faster pigeons at 500/700 mile. But sadly the old British long distance birds bred to come in adverse weather have been bred out and these are the pigeons we could do with today. I think Chris Gordon has it right he is breeding from the old English distance strains crosed with the speed of the Belgians and he should breed some with that hardy element of always coming when it's tough but with slightly more speed.
And if anyone knows someone down here in Devon / Somerset who has these British strains that still win from Thurso and Lerwick please let me know.
[/color]I believe you must have quality birds first and foremost but if the health is no good you won't win, but healthy birds of poor quality will never win. If you can master the art of feeding then that is an added advantage you have, but for me quality and health first and worry about precision feeding when you're consistently Knocking at the door.
The bottom line in all this is breeding and the art of selection, to get quality birds you must be able to select or perhaps rely on your wallet.

[color=red]

best post in a long time

Health and Hawks.

Stuart

albear would agree with all u say apart from basket training i do belive they need to know what a basket  is before there first toss and for drinking just try putting drinkers on the birds in the club when the marking is finished and ul see them drink we done it this year and i couldn't belive how much the birds drank even though they were only in the baskets for a short while  

my own beliefs for loses are all of the above birds not good enough feed training and so on u see top fanicers they never seem to lose to many alright they might have 1 bad year but its rare the top fanicers leave not tin uncovered when it comes to all these points there attention to detail and there work ethic is amazing no stone is left uncovered

Quoted from j.bamling

I would say yes in some instances

1. To heavy a feed ( lots of protein ) will result in ybs going fat thus resulting in lack of condition & out of shape birds which will have a reluctance to fly for long periods of time .

2. To light a feed ( low protein ) is the one i perfer but the birds will fly for longer periods of time but with the feed being low protein the ybs don't put on any weight & have no build up of reserves and if they go missing they don't return

It is a fine balance between the 2 feeding methods what is required something only the fancier can decide !!!!!

Well niether applies of course to hopper fed. Sure you may leave a mite 'Feed' you wish for them to have, as they don't know what you have planned for the. However, Most naturl flyers seem to get the feeding right... why they excel not only at the distance, but sprints too now adays.

gone are the day's when we started the programe , with 14-20 old bird's
5 race's down ireland , 125-250ml
6 on the water             198-500+ml
the programe compleated with very few losses barring , bad luck with smashe's
y/bird programe starting with 20 ,
10 race's out to 250ml , again few losses , barring smashe's
feed was basic , what ever you could get your hand's on at the right money
inferior bird's- yes
sick bird's-yes
feed -no
just not the right stuff

JUST TO ADD A LITTLE POINT TO THIS 2 OF THE GUYS AT OUR PLACE TOOK THERE Y/B'S 15 MLS AWAY TODAY LIB'D AT 10.45AM 1 SENT 47 THE OTHER 13 RESULT AT 7 PM TONIGHT WAS 21 FROM 47 AND 5 FROM 13

another point to this last week i sent 26 on the south road and lost 11 in one toss this week sent i have sent  them all north and got them all home the point i am trying to make is that most people race south road so more birds will be raced from that direction so most losses will be put down to clashing

forgot to mention i dont believe it is down to feeding or inadequate birds but it is down to training routes

i agree with what carlsberg said and he is right in my opinion

Young bird losses (not in any particular order)

1 - Quality of pigeons

2 - Health (including pigeons that are out there that have been doctored up, when really they should be in the bin)

3 - Clashing

4 - Hawks in certain areas

5 - Weather

6 - Non coordination of Feds / Amals (why send 6 transporters down from the same area to the same racepoint and have seperate liberations, strength in numbers and all that).

7 - Feed, not giving the birds enough fuel in their tanks if they make a mistake, with the way we feed these days (more carbs / fats and less proteins), they have one shot at getting home - if they don't they don't have anything in the tank to help them the next day.

Just my thoughts, although I think the list is endless

It would be interesting to give someone a loft of say 75/100 young birds . NO ped,s,No names and No idea where they came from . Ask the person to fly them to the best of his ability and see what the result would be after 4/5 years .

He would have to go on the birds alone . No preference because its a this or that breed .
                                                         . No breeding this strain with the same
                                                         . No idea of making money out of this or that ect ect ect
                                                         . No fancy food,just decent quality food
In the end he would have the birds that could do the job and fight for home  , even if its only one pair !
He might not have the winners every week ! But his birds will come home !!

This wouldnt appeal to the big money men or the win at all cost men , but it would mean a lot to the grass roots guys who want to see their birds getting home every week .
Would we end up with a loft of decent doo,s ????
Would we answer the question of young bird losses ????
Would we breed a stronger constitution pigeon ????

The feed , the medication , the basket raining , the road training , the quality of birds , as long as there are a thousand different guys doing a thousand different things we may never know ?

Its been said before,   The List Is Endless !!

This has also been said before !
                                          " A good bird will still do well regardless of the fancier "

Quoted from Roland

Well niether applies of course to hopper fed. Sure you may leave a mite 'Feed' you wish for them to have, as they don't know what you have planned for the. However, Most naturl flyers seem to get the feeding right... why they excel not only at the distance, but sprints too nowadays

We are talking about ybs here not natural distance hopper fed pigeons
I was on about the balance between feeding to light
and feeding to heavy
If the ybs were fed an Irish mix they ain't going to
win the first yb races
Or if the ybs are fed depuritive they are not going to
win yb Nat say 270 mls also
Losses would be great that was my point !!!
The feeding would play.a Part in yb losses if people did the wrong thing it is getting the feeding right and the quantity of how much to give them which is the key

i

rubbish fanciers who know nothing and rubbish birds both total loosers


oh happy days