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Thousands of pigeons are sold via the net by people we have never met, yet we hand over are cash without a thought because we are reaching for the Holy Grail. If a street seller approached you with a pigeon with pedigree supplied saying it was a pure 'Van' and he wanted £60 for it you would tell him where to go! But in the same breath fliers do this via the net on a regular basis without setting their brain to 'GO'.
Why? Because we are greedy, can't resist a so called bargain and the grass is always greener on the otherside. The sad thing is that we have all been programmed from an early age to response to images of the good life by the media. We see a pretty picture, read about it and the preprogrammed brain wants to buy without a thought being passed. The sellers never programmed you to question the product, WHERE IT CAME FROM, WHO IS SELLING, WHY THE PRICE etc ( Think sweathouses or 4yo kids in Asia sewing your sweater together that you worn once! )
It's time for the sport to curb the abuse some sellers are getting away with. More and more studs are appearing, more rings are being sold each year, yet the fancy is in decline? How can this be? Thousands lost each year, sickness on the increase, yet every seller have Golden pairs that never miss, MIRACLES DO HAPPEN when it comes to selling.
I ask the sellers of this site to please provide the following:
1) Loft no. 2) Recent results with members and birdage competing. 3) If you are not racing then please state so. 4) If you have just brought in stock of a famous strain( ) then please post the original pedigree for the public to view and state that the stock hasn't been tested yet. 5) Be as open as possible with the questions asked of you if you haven't done any of the above.
Finally - This isn't directed in anyway at Adam(jakjak), no mud has been thrown in his direction by me. He conducted himself in a proper manner when i bought two Kirkpatrick grizzles from him many moons ago. I wish to see a fair and open sale for all possible buyers.
Regards
Les
Buy birds from a racing fancier, not from PIGEON DEALERS. Generations of untested birds will leave you with an empty loft and wallet. THINK before you spend on strain names!
Thousands of pigeons are sold via the net by people we have never met, yet we hand over are cash without a thought because we are reaching for the Holy Grail. If a street seller approached you with a pigeon with pedigree supplied saying it was a pure 'Van' and he wanted £60 for it you would tell him where to go! But in the same breath fliers do this via the net on a regular basis without setting their brain to 'GO'.
Why? Because we are greedy, can't resist a so called bargain and the grass is always greener on the otherside. The sad thing is that we have all been programmed from an early age to response to images of the good life by the media. We see a pretty picture, read about it and the preprogrammed brain wants to buy without a thought being passed. The sellers never programmed you to question the product, WHERE IT CAME FROM, WHO IS SELLING, WHY THE PRICE etc ( Think sweathouses or 4yo kids in Asia sewing your sweater together that you worn once! )
It's time for the sport to curb the abuse some sellers are getting away with. More and more studs are appearing, more rings are being sold each year, yet the fancy is in decline? How can this be? Thousands lost each year, sickness on the increase, yet every seller have Golden pairs that never miss, MIRACLES DO HAPPEN when it comes to selling.
I ask the sellers of this site to please provide the following:
1) Loft no. 2) Recent results with members and birdage competing. 3) If you are not racing then please state so. 4) If you have just brought in stock of a famous strain( ) then please post the original pedigree for the public to view and state that the stock hasn't been tested yet. 5) Be as open as possible with the questions asked of you if you haven't done any of the above.
Finally - This isn't directed in anyway at Adam(jakjak), no mud has been thrown in his direction by me. He conducted himself in a proper manner when i bought two Kirkpatrick grizzles from him many moons ago. I wish to see a fair and open sale for all possible buyers.
Regards
Les
I totally agree with Les. Adam has some fantastic pigeons, I bought two myself from him and I give him credit where it's due. There are so many pigeons sales today that you don't know whether you are buying good quality stuff or stuff that been bred of strays. I'm a new starter myself and I have purchased some pigeons. None have any true pedigrees, although Adam did send me his base strain pedigree sheets for his Camiel's and I've got to agree that they are quality birds. The others I bought of Vallance and I know that if he had the pedigree's he would supply them, but the bird I purchased from him was from Geoff Clare (A Janssen Cheq) and after doing some research I can see that Mr Clare is an excellent flyer with many wins in the North Road CC over the last couple of years.
I can recall a few years ago a very well known fancier was having a clearence sale, he had a couple of pages in the BHW with hundreds of results. Some birds haveing many 1st's, 2nd's etc and then alot with 2nd, 3rd beaten by loft mates. There were no details of the races, birdage, clubs etc. A very good friend of his questioned him about all his claims knowing he hadn't won what was claimed to be told they were positions back to the loft! Funny enough every bird sold very quickly!
Always ask questions of the vendor before parting with money and if you don't get honest answers then keep your money in your pockets!
even on my own planet i am thought of as different All-round Racer
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has this site got a code of conduct for sellers? and if it has, can this be Incorporated into it.[the only problem would be this would be the only site doing it]have you tried asking the "big" studs to do the same?,or anyother pigeon site?,its the same old story ,buy them[any pigeons]if you want to,or don't
to learn from your mistakes is easy to learn from someone else' is harder.[bismarck]
It should be built into the union rules regarding advetising and selling birds as is sellers details etc. Anybody advertising should be stating details as per rules anyway!
Rory/Chriss etc i believe you make a very very valid proposal regarding results, breeding and information from a seller, however is might have been better to make it a seperate post for debate as Jak Jak may believe you have invaded his space a little.
The most important thing is that we discuss these things in the correct way and in the correct forum so that we can try and keep things calm.
Jak Jak just a wee note, you have offered these birds now £100 a pair which i believe is very very good value, i notice this week in the BHW ybs for £120 each from the same lines, so in my opion if you were looking for Van De Merwe pigeons you would have benifited from being a PB member by having access to this offer.
Its all about getting a benifit from being a PB member, maybe by making friends, learning, discussion, knowing early times and results, picking up a pigeon or too for the right price??
The fancy press live off sellers with their ads, wouldn't benefit them to force sellers to give honest details. It would need a code of conduct rule by all unions to force the issue through. The paper media are struggling with the power of the net, more and more birds are sold by virtual means than anyother way. RP/BHW are just interested in surviving on the crumbs they are being offered, no way will they rock the boat.
The Squills/BHW studbooks should force the sellers to list their loft number, all results etc before they can sell; take alook at the sellers in the 2008 issues, how many serious racers are selling first or second round ybs? Serous racers know that they need everybird they breed because its impossible to predict the quality until its been tested. Why sell them to benefit others and leave yourself with the fodder?
Latebreds is a different matter entirely, sell these to cover your costs for the year or to fund new stock, nowt wrong with this.
A certain stud is selling birds every week by the net, they put up the pedigree for all to see; if you want to pay £50 for a bird that is bred off three generations of untested stock than you can, your choice entirely. £350 FOR A GRANDCHILD OF A NATIONAL WINNER? Its there in colour for you to see, so they are being honest with the parentage, but what have the parents bred before, you should ask yourself?
Steer clear of studs, go to a racing loft for your birds, visit the fancier and enquire of him/her the parentage/performances of the birds you wish to purchase. Don't be made a mug of, research research, research before you buy.
Buy birds from a racing fancier, not from PIGEON DEALERS. Generations of untested birds will leave you with an empty loft and wallet. THINK before you spend on strain names!
Rory/Chriss etc i believe you make a very very valid proposal regarding results, breeding and information from a seller, however is might have been better to make it a seperate post for debate as Jak Jak may believe you have invaded his space a little.
The most important thing is that we discuss these things in the correct way and in the correct forum so that we can try and keep things calm.
Jak Jak just a wee note, you have offered these birds now £100 a pair which i believe is very very good value, i notice this week in the BHW ybs for £120 each from the same lines, so in my opion if you were looking for Van De Merwe pigeons you would have benifited from being a PB member by having access to this offer.
Its all about getting a benifit from being a PB member, maybe by making friends, learning, discussion, knowing early times and results, picking up a pigeon or too for the right price??
Stuart
Valid point Stu, note to myself for future reference.
Buy birds from a racing fancier, not from PIGEON DEALERS. Generations of untested birds will leave you with an empty loft and wallet. THINK before you spend on strain names!
Dont see a problem with any of the 5 points that Rory has outlined,its common sense,and if I am buying old birds for stock purposes,I ask these and many more,but as for the rest Its life,and again its down to buyer,nobody is forcing them to buy,just as nobody can make them not buy,if they want,I would have no problem in buying youngsters from any scource if it suited ME,and I do trust my intelligence to always be aware of the old adage of BUYER BEWARE,in all things not just pigeons, as I am sure the vast majority of fanciers are capable of doing.
Without hijacking Jakjak's further would just like to add, that you cannot tar every seller of birds with the same brush wether they are "dealers" or not. I think you have to get background on the fancier you are buying from as well as the bloodlines of the birds.
I for one have purchased some good birds, some have already bred winners and other good birds, others have not but come from stock that has produced. I won't at the moment be racing birds, but will be entering a lot of one loft races. So i will not be able to produce a list of what these birds have won etc, but anyone who knows me will know that if i set out to achieve something then the chances are i will, never guaranteed but i will give it my best shot. Also as a trades man i appreciate that to do a good job you need the tools. If i were to sell some YBs, (to which i would say i have never ever sold a YB in my life, but possibly will be soon) would you buy from me?
Simple answer to me should be yes, would i really waste thousands of pounds entering these race's with crap? Its always against the odds buying birds, but do your homework and you can often back a decent favourite.
BTW Jakjak, lovely YBs well worth the money your asking, a lot of Nicholas's birds (if not all) now at Darren Peters achieving national wins and records.
Rory/Chriss etc i believe you make a very very valid proposal regarding results, breeding and information from a seller, however is might have been better to make it a seperate post for debate as Jak Jak may believe you have invaded his space a little.
The most important thing is that we discuss these things in the correct way and in the correct forum so that we can try and keep things calm.
Jak Jak just a wee note, you have offered these birds now £100 a pair which i believe is very very good value, i notice this week in the BHW ybs for £120 each from the same lines, so in my opion if you were looking for Van De Merwe pigeons you would have benifited from being a PB member by having access to this offer.
Its all about getting a benifit from being a PB member, maybe by making friends, learning, discussion, knowing early times and results, picking up a pigeon or too for the right price??
Stuart
a good point delivered well, sorry mate if you think i hijacked this thread,no intention of doing that,besides the birds look good,with a good background at a fair price
to learn from your mistakes is easy to learn from someone else' is harder.[bismarck]
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) then please post the original pedigree for the public to view and state that the stock hasn't been tested yet.
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