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I am the only person concerned about the avian flu epidemic. Reports indicate that it is headed to Europe. Look at the restrictions already in place by the Dutch. Our Government were drastic over Foot and Mouth and that does not kill Humans. I believe that Pigeons would be in the cull. I wondered what other folk felt and that perhaps Johhnysfarm, Hyacinth slugmonkey etc and anyone from Europe could let us know what is happening

yeah did cross my mind!! does it effect pigeons?

Dont know but there is evidence that other animals are infected and wild Birds AND HUMANS DIED IN ASIA

When avian flu was wide spread in holland and belgium all pigeons were resticted to their lofts and racing was stopped for a while but there were no reported incidents of pigeons catching the virus. Lets hope this strain of flu is not capable of spreading too far fron Asia. If we have to keep the birds confined maybe it will be a good thing at least a few hawks will die through starvation.
fly hard fly fair.

yeah think we will be fine here somthing happend before & we had to stop flying over the channel some years ago mind i remember one member talking about it last year

thay say today, that, we will be in for the ourbreak not sure when, it has spead to russia, & the reason we will get it is because of "Migrating Birds,,thats what i heard in the radio today,leys hope its later then sooner ah.Speckled.The reason speedbird we stopped racing over the channel,was the foot & mouth outbreack i think.Speckled

yeah i heard that lets hope if it does come here its before the season restarts nxt year which i think it will this way will hardly affect us even if we have to leave em in dont hink it was foot & mouth it was somthings to do with pigeons

yes its frightening ,,,   for the humans

What about me chicken. down here speedbird the reason we never went across the channal was for that reason,& that was 2001, as we raced out of the east.Speckled

IT WAS FOOT AND MOUTH< MORE TO DO WITH THE TRANSPORTERS WHICH HAD TO BE WASHED DOWN ON ENTERING AND LEAVING CERTAIN AREAS, IT WAS THIS THAT STOPPED US GETTING INTO FRANCE< BUT IF I REMEMBER I THINK WE WERE GOING TO TRY RACING FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE AS IT WAS FRANCE WHICH PUT THE STOP TO PIGEONS< I AM SURE THIS IS CORRECT???

cant remember what it was but it was well before the foot & mouth will do ome research & ask sum members who wer talking about it

Hi guys. This subject was discussed on the old forum and Hyacinth posted this copy letter. I thought it would be worthwhile seeing it again:-

"To: 'Gord Chalmers'  
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 3:33 PM
Subject: RE: Avian Influenza


Dear Dr. Chalmers

 

Dr. Kaleta recently published review of Avian Influenza (AI) in pigeons and concluded, as I also believe, that pigeons are resistant to avian influenza viruses and have not been a reservoir or vector of the virus. DTW.Deutsche.tierarztliche.Wochenschrift 111(12):467-472, 2004.

 

Other studies have support the resistance of pigeons to AI virus infections. Some people have confused die-offs in pigeons to avian influenza when paramyxovirus type 1 is a common cause of neurological disease and death in pigeons and not avian influenza.

 

We have conducted experimental studies in pigeons using viruses isolated from dead pigeons in Thailand. Even direct inoculation of these viruses into nasal cavity of pigeons caused limited infections with between 60-80% of the pigeons not becoming infected. This suggests the mortality from H5N1 HPAI virus in pigeons may have resulted from synergy between AI infection and some other pathogen.

 

The "illness in school children" is an unsubstantiated rumor. No AI virus was isolated from the children and I am unaware of any evidence of infection.  

 

With this scientific information, it is unlikely that banning pigeons will have any impact on AI ecology and will not reduce the risk AI infections of poultry or humans. The primary species that have natural infections with AI viruses are wild ducks and shorebird (turnstones, gulls, etc.). Columbiformes and passerines are not reservoirs and they are rarely incidental hosts following spill-over of the viruses from infected domestic poultry.  

 

Regards

 

David E. Swayne, DVM, PhD  
Laboratory Director  
Southeast Poultry Research Laboratory  
USDA/ARS  
934 College Station Road  
Athens, Georgia  
Telephone: 706-546-3433  
Fax: 706-546-3161 "


I think the important sections here are "that pigeons are resistant to avian influenza viruses and have not been a reservoir or vector of the virus" and "Columbiformes and passerines are not reservoirs and they are rarely incidental hosts."

If this is right and can be proved to DEFRA and SERAD then we should have nothing to fear. However, someone in the RPRA or SHU should be making moves on this at the moment to ensure that our sport is protected.

Please do.as it seems to be well, before 2001 then speedbird ah Speckled

Sometime over the off season I remember seeing a report of Avain Flu being found in a flock of pigeons in Thailand. I think they were feral birds. Hope it was a false alarm and the above (letter) is true.

You can take the content of the above letter as being Being very true.

If I were you lot, I would be pressing the RPRA SHU WHU IHU NEHU AND NWHU To contact Ms Karen Clifton of The American Racing Pigeon Union who has very good documentation supporting the case that racing pigeons do not carry Avian Indluenza I am sure she would be only too pleased to share it with The Unions of The United Kingdom

During an attack of avian influenza in the Frazier Valley of British Columbia Canada, my friend Kevin Ball and Dr. Gordon Chalmers took on the Canadian Federal Government when they condemed all bird life in the Frazier Valley to death, they won their case and saved the Racing Pigeons

thats worth knowing

Without wishing to panic anyone.
I asked Hyacinth to post up that Canada outbreak. Still waiting. If it is or was Bird Flu over there (funny how the media or WHO didn't mention it) then the UK is at risk on two fronts: Migrating birds (geese?) from the West, and migrating birds from Russia and one of the K'stans in the East.
The likely arrival of the virus in the UK is winter 2006.
Speckled - for your hens, the simple solution seems to be to keep them inside in a wild bird-proof shed. Don't see a problem short-term with that solution with the pigeons either.
And again without wishing to be alarmist, the virus has been found in pigeons. Spread is through saliva and droppings. All the normal precautions and good pigeon and personal hygiene should help keep us all safe.
And it is humans that are most at risk - we are the only vessel where human flu and bird flu are likely to meet - and mutate.

Heard couple of reports on lunch time news the last couple days and the Financial Times yesterday had it as front page news the articles were on their website yesterday regarding Avian Flu by the bits i have heard and seen it is waterfowl that are the hosts mainly of it eg geese there has been no mention of what i have heard or read mentioning pigeons  by all accounts it has been found in lions as well as humans and i think the main concern is a mutation of the virus which would be much more deadly than what we have at the moment a form of it has been found before in pigs and horses a few years back I believe Roche have produced some kind of vaccination for it but it will not be available in any quantity for months and goverments are trying to stockpile it so obviously they are taking it seriously  I think the Dutch have been told to take in all chickens and by what I did here I think probably it will be suggested to farmers to do that as well over here

The Roche thing is tamiflu antiviral tablets, Rose. UK stocked up in February this year with millions, but not enough to do the whole population.  The latest on Roche is that they have donated 3 million tablets to the World Health Organisation to 'contain' any new outbreak amongst humans (and it is humans we should concern ourselves with for the time being because we are (I THINK) more likely to get this than the pigeons). The plan is to swamp the outbreak area with a medical task force recruited and on standby in countries around the world, the Roche donation is part of that plan.

Just heard on the radio coming back from the club there has been a confirmed out break of avian flu in Finland the bird is a seagull. hope it stays the other side of the water.

sorry Bruno what are you waiting for from me

Hi Hyacinth. You probably missed my earlier post under 'Health' requesting more information on the Canada Bird Flu outbreak. There was no news here in the UK on it, and nothing on WHO site either. Wondered if you could supply details. Interested in how it got there and USA's reaction to having it on their doorstep. Type and number of Birds involved? People involved?
Feel it is really important for us because Canada is 'upwind' of us and lots of geese from that direction overwinter on Scottish west coast islands and inland Central Scotland. We might have two fronts opening up on us with it being on mainland Europe too. I'd like to be prepared!!!
A web address would be fine.  

Hi Bruno

Sorry I missed your posting.

For all details please contact my friend Kevin Ball, he has given permission for his e-mail to be given out for this purpose kevinball20@shaw.ca.  Hre will be able to give you the details of the Canadian outbreak, bear in mind this was on Canada's West Coast

Conflicting reports; late last night on news24 they were reporting that the risk from migrating birds is minimal, seriously not allot. Most of the birds 'go the other way'. However they did seem to think that it is inevitible (my spelling is shocking I know ) that the flu will spread the world over, its just a matter of time.

I think poultry farms over here are taking the threat seriously as many in my area are moving poultry indoors, which obviously means more work for me.
But I think this is more of a precaution than anything.
I dont think there will be any free range eggs for a bit though.

Hyancinth, thanks for the contact and I've e-mailed Kevin Ball for details. Will keep the forum posted. I suspect it will be interesting though!!!!!!

Mealybar and others: There will be lots of opinion, rumours, stories etc. May I suggest that the one place you will find hard facts is the World Health Organisation's web pages dedicated to Avian Influenza:

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/en/

Preston Powerblast: Ben Bradshaw (MP / DEFRA) on a TV interview  said that Organic Farming legislation provided for emergency medical situations like this one. Even though they are inside as a  NECESSARY precaution, they are still classed as free range and their eggs can still be legally sold as such. Business as usual, I think.

My difficulty is that the Government dont take a tempered view and will probably order a wholesale slaughter of everythinhg Avian

The WHO are not always right ..been using anti malaria drugs in |Africa which are not effective inthat the strain has become immune

My difficulty is that the Government dont take a tempered view and will probably order a wholesale slaughter of everythinhg Avian

Fifestay

If you start pressing your Unions now to collected the paper work regarding pigeons and avian flu. I don't think you should have any problems.

To be forwardned is to be forarmed  !!!!!!

ive also posted a new thread on this i know they stopped pigeon racing when the foot and mouth broke out but i hope it will not come over here in the u.k or even any were in europe because all channel races will be stopped. and im looking forward to the channel races this year! ive got some birds that i fancy in bourges this year

I think we need to take some responsibility ourselves, not only to occupy the moral high ground in the coming crisis, but also to ensure that both we and our birds are safe FROM the virus and FOR each other.
To do that, we must admit to ourselves that there is a possibility – however remote - that the virus could occur in pigeons. Take another long and hard look at the earlier post ‘from the medics’ – which somehow has been taken as proof that it can’t. Where did the virus come from that was used in the experiment?  From pigeons. So please wake up people to that reality.
Now our ‘friends’ in the RSPB have already mounted a similar ‘look elsewhere’ campaign. The Scotsman Friday 26th August, before it quotes from a joint statement issued by RSPB and 3 other bird organisations says ‘these groups played down the risk of migrating birds bringing bird flu to Scotland. The ‘RSPB’ statement said there was no definite proof migratory birds can transmit the disease. Although there was a theoretical risk birds could bring the virus to the UK, they believe the risk is higher from imported poultry or the pet trade.’
So there you have it, without a shred of proof, they come away with a statement that says don’t blame wild birds – more likely that some ‘domestic’ breed is at fault. Now doesn’t that sound a bit like some of our posts?  Never mind the consequences, its not our birds, lets get on with our racing – while millions of people die around us - racing over the channel from a dead continent?
The post on malaria misses out the virus's survival strategy. Pretty difficult to keep on top of something that is constantly changing. Unlike other organisms, it cannot ‘reproduce’ a carbon copy of itself. One virus invading a cell produces millions of virus different in some way from the original.What works against it today, might not necessarily work tomorrow. (The same with quinine. But another was developed, and works) . Thats why they speak about this strain (H5N1) - there's actually about a dozen of them. The one in Holland two years ago was a different one again.
That’s why I say work as if the virus can infect a pigeon – take reasonable precautions now. Because one day it will surely be able to infect our birds – and then it will be too late to do something about it.

Yes I take the point Bruno but the WHO doctors know its the beaucrats. Its about panis for me and just taking radical action if it flies and has feathers kill it is my worry. We will see what Europe does ..thank goodness we are an Isalnd gives a bit odf space if the Migrating Birds get to europe first

: err that you should be panic not panis

Well Fifestay, I know your fears after what happened in Foot & Mouth in the UK. But I believe that the answer lies with ourselves. We are part of Europe, part of the European Directive arrangement which is designed to keep matters of importance uniform throughout the member states.

Now there’s an interesting development in Holland with free range poultry. To keep the birds safe, the Dutch Government has said that all these birds are to be kept inside. Inside being a wild bird-proof building.

A pigeon loft is a wild bird-proof building. If it isn’t wild bird-proof now then make it so. Keep the pigeons in. No big problem at this time of year and certainly for next 6 months or so. So here we have already healthy birds confined BEFORE BIRD FLU ARRIVES like another member state has advised and with which the relevant industry has complied. WE HAVE LEGAL PRECEDENT WHICH CAN BE ARGUED AND WON IN EVERY COURT AT EVERY LEVEL IN EUROPE.


(1) Good easy to read and understand layperson’s guide from Japan, in English. Helps understanding of how this is transmitted from bird to bird. Note that this is the advice given to the public IN AN AREA WHERE BIRD FLU HAS ALREADY BROKEN OUT.

http://www.city.osaka.jp/kenkoufukushi/kansensyou/english/infection/01.html


(2) Guardian newspaper report on Dutch locking up free range poultry. A precedent lead for us to follow which could also be argued, in my opinion, as a legal precedent in court. Taken with (1) above, locking up our birds seems to be a simple and effective way to protect them from the virus and overreaction by the UK Parliaments / Assemblies.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/birdflu/story/0,14207,1554356,00.html


So Hyacinth is quite right even if she is on a slightly different track – but I hope she’ll come over too    - get informed, get ready and take action BEFORE Bird Flu arrives and show that you are behaving in a public-minded and responsible way. No Judge anywhere is ever going to find against you if you do.

Bruno

Three years ago there was an outbreak of Exotic Newcastle Disease in California and one or two other States in the US.  We were in the direct line of flight for birds travelling between CA and Canada..  We sought the advice of a State Avian Vet who was also a flying member of our club, as we were concerned at picking up something from the birds droppings and walking it into the loft.  His advice was not to let the birds ground at all and to keep a pan of disinfected water in front of the loft and walk through it before entering in the loft.

Hyacinth, do you have to vaccinate your birds as we do here??

Good thinking Hyacinth,    you're actually into the next phase of my evil plan.
A loft full of confined pigeons [IN ISOLATION] is all very well, but you must also make sure that there is no way in and out for disease. We've already blocked the main route - direct contact with wild birds and their droppings - the next main route is on or in US.
Make sure that you take basic hygiene precautions - washing your hands each and every time you've been in the loft and before you touch anything else in the house.
If you wash your drinkers in the house, use your own 'old' cloths for this and for no other purpose. I have special permission to use my wife's antibacterial washing up liquid which will at least see the bacteria part covered.  
I keep a pair of shoes that gets me from the house to the loft. I keep an old pair of slippers in the loft which I use inside the loft only.
I have deep litter which is based on crushed limestone (calcium carbonate) and a dry disinifect (Stalosan) which covers my perches and nest box floors too. Walking about the loft tends to kick this up and my loft trousers get a coating of it - enough to kill anything that shouldn't be there. If I had a loft coat - it wouldn't leave the loft either.  
I've already said elsewhere I use Virkon S to clean scrapers etc and you could use it to spray any 'damp' patches on or under your perches etc; or limestone or Stalosan or a combination of all 3 as you see fit.  
If you are on a smallholding or farm where other animals or poultry is kept, I would adopt Hyacinth's Boot Wash NOW at all entrance doors at all buildings housing them.
And if you have been out in the park with the children feeding the local birds - Boot Wash and wash your hands as soon as you come back and before you go near the loft.  

The experts agreed that the recent outbreaks of avian influenza in Russia are a cause for concern but that the risk of the virus spreading into the EU via migrating birds is remote or low. They concluded that it would not be proportionate to the current risk of disease to introduce a general ban on keeping poultry outdoors.

This is the latest statement by DEFRA

Vaccination is not mandatory by the Unions but is is in some feds and Combines.

Slept on your last post, Preston Powerblast, and I am still not clear on the point you are making.  
Sticking to pigeons: Are you suggesting to Fifestay and others who were pretty stirred up by Avian Flu and had little information on it from the government source you quote : Do nothing / There isn't any need?