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Hi Hyacinth. You probably missed my earlier post under 'Health' requesting more information on the Canada Bird Flu outbreak. There was no news here in the UK on it, and nothing on WHO site either. Wondered if you could supply details. Interested in how it got there and USA's reaction to having it on their doorstep. Type and number of Birds involved? People involved? Feel it is really important for us because Canada is 'upwind' of us and lots of geese from that direction overwinter on Scottish west coast islands and inland Central Scotland. We might have two fronts opening up on us with it being on mainland Europe too. I'd like to be prepared!!! A web address would be fine.
For all details please contact my friend Kevin Ball, he has given permission for his e-mail to be given out for this purpose kevinball20@shaw.ca. Hre will be able to give you the details of the Canadian outbreak, bear in mind this was on Canada's West Coast
Conflicting reports; late last night on news24 they were reporting that the risk from migrating birds is minimal, seriously not allot. Most of the birds 'go the other way'. However they did seem to think that it is inevitible (my spelling is shocking I know ) that the flu will spread the world over, its just a matter of time.
I think poultry farms over here are taking the threat seriously as many in my area are moving poultry indoors, which obviously means more work for me. But I think this is more of a precaution than anything. I dont think there will be any free range eggs for a bit though.
Hyancinth, thanks for the contact and I've e-mailed Kevin Ball for details. Will keep the forum posted. I suspect it will be interesting though!!!!!!
Mealybar and others: There will be lots of opinion, rumours, stories etc. May I suggest that the one place you will find hard facts is the World Health Organisation's web pages dedicated to Avian Influenza:
Preston Powerblast: Ben Bradshaw (MP / DEFRA) on a TV interview said that Organic Farming legislation provided for emergency medical situations like this one. Even though they are inside as a NECESSARY precaution, they are still classed as free range and their eggs can still be legally sold as such. Business as usual, I think.
ive also posted a new thread on this i know they stopped pigeon racing when the foot and mouth broke out but i hope it will not come over here in the u.k or even any were in europe because all channel races will be stopped. and im looking forward to the channel races this year! ive got some birds that i fancy in bourges this year
I think we need to take some responsibility ourselves, not only to occupy the moral high ground in the coming crisis, but also to ensure that both we and our birds are safe FROM the virus and FOR each other. To do that, we must admit to ourselves that there is a possibility – however remote - that the virus could occur in pigeons. Take another long and hard look at the earlier post ‘from the medics’ – which somehow has been taken as proof that it can’t. Where did the virus come from that was used in the experiment? From pigeons. So please wake up people to that reality. Now our ‘friends’ in the RSPB have already mounted a similar ‘look elsewhere’ campaign. The Scotsman Friday 26th August, before it quotes from a joint statement issued by RSPB and 3 other bird organisations says ‘these groups played down the risk of migrating birds bringing bird flu to Scotland. The ‘RSPB’ statement said there was no definite proof migratory birds can transmit the disease. Although there was a theoretical risk birds could bring the virus to the UK, they believe the risk is higher from imported poultry or the pet trade.’ So there you have it, without a shred of proof, they come away with a statement that says don’t blame wild birds – more likely that some ‘domestic’ breed is at fault. Now doesn’t that sound a bit like some of our posts? Never mind the consequences, its not our birds, lets get on with our racing – while millions of people die around us - racing over the channel from a dead continent? The post on malaria misses out the virus's survival strategy. Pretty difficult to keep on top of something that is constantly changing. Unlike other organisms, it cannot ‘reproduce’ a carbon copy of itself. One virus invading a cell produces millions of virus different in some way from the original.What works against it today, might not necessarily work tomorrow. (The same with quinine. But another was developed, and works) . Thats why they speak about this strain (H5N1) - there's actually about a dozen of them. The one in Holland two years ago was a different one again. That’s why I say work as if the virus can infect a pigeon – take reasonable precautions now. Because one day it will surely be able to infect our birds – and then it will be too late to do something about it.
Fly fair, have patience and be good to the Birds Veteran of the Loft!!
Posts: 669
Location: Fife
Yes I take the point Bruno but the WHO doctors know its the beaucrats. Its about panis for me and just taking radical action if it flies and has feathers kill it is my worry. We will see what Europe does ..thank goodness we are an Isalnd gives a bit odf space if the Migrating Birds get to europe first
Well Fifestay, I know your fears after what happened in Foot & Mouth in the UK. But I believe that the answer lies with ourselves. We are part of Europe, part of the European Directive arrangement which is designed to keep matters of importance uniform throughout the member states.
Now there’s an interesting development in Holland with free range poultry. To keep the birds safe, the Dutch Government has said that all these birds are to be kept inside. Inside being a wild bird-proof building.
A pigeon loft is a wild bird-proof building. If it isn’t wild bird-proof now then make it so. Keep the pigeons in. No big problem at this time of year and certainly for next 6 months or so. So here we have already healthy birds confined BEFORE BIRD FLU ARRIVES like another member state has advised and with which the relevant industry has complied. WE HAVE LEGAL PRECEDENT WHICH CAN BE ARGUED AND WON IN EVERY COURT AT EVERY LEVEL IN EUROPE.
(1) Good easy to read and understand layperson’s guide from Japan, in English. Helps understanding of how this is transmitted from bird to bird. Note that this is the advice given to the public IN AN AREA WHERE BIRD FLU HAS ALREADY BROKEN OUT.
(2) Guardian newspaper report on Dutch locking up free range poultry. A precedent lead for us to follow which could also be argued, in my opinion, as a legal precedent in court. Taken with (1) above, locking up our birds seems to be a simple and effective way to protect them from the virus and overreaction by the UK Parliaments / Assemblies.
So Hyacinth is quite right even if she is on a slightly different track – but I hope she’ll come over too - get informed, get ready and take action BEFORE Bird Flu arrives and show that you are behaving in a public-minded and responsible way. No Judge anywhere is ever going to find against you if you do.
Three years ago there was an outbreak of Exotic Newcastle Disease in California and one or two other States in the US. We were in the direct line of flight for birds travelling between CA and Canada.. We sought the advice of a State Avian Vet who was also a flying member of our club, as we were concerned at picking up something from the birds droppings and walking it into the loft. His advice was not to let the birds ground at all and to keep a pan of disinfected water in front of the loft and walk through it before entering in the loft.
Good thinking Hyacinth, you're actually into the next phase of my evil plan. A loft full of confined pigeons [IN ISOLATION] is all very well, but you must also make sure that there is no way in and out for disease. We've already blocked the main route - direct contact with wild birds and their droppings - the next main route is on or in US. Make sure that you take basic hygiene precautions - washing your hands each and every time you've been in the loft and before you touch anything else in the house. If you wash your drinkers in the house, use your own 'old' cloths for this and for no other purpose. I have special permission to use my wife's antibacterial washing up liquid which will at least see the bacteria part covered. I keep a pair of shoes that gets me from the house to the loft. I keep an old pair of slippers in the loft which I use inside the loft only. I have deep litter which is based on crushed limestone (calcium carbonate) and a dry disinifect (Stalosan) which covers my perches and nest box floors too. Walking about the loft tends to kick this up and my loft trousers get a coating of it - enough to kill anything that shouldn't be there. If I had a loft coat - it wouldn't leave the loft either. I've already said elsewhere I use Virkon S to clean scrapers etc and you could use it to spray any 'damp' patches on or under your perches etc; or limestone or Stalosan or a combination of all 3 as you see fit. If you are on a smallholding or farm where other animals or poultry is kept, I would adopt Hyacinth's Boot Wash NOW at all entrance doors at all buildings housing them. And if you have been out in the park with the children feeding the local birds - Boot Wash and wash your hands as soon as you come back and before you go near the loft.
The experts agreed that the recent outbreaks of avian influenza in Russia are a cause for concern but that the risk of the virus spreading into the EU via migrating birds is remote or low. They concluded that it would not be proportionate to the current risk of disease to introduce a general ban on keeping poultry outdoors.
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The Scotsman Friday 26th August, before it quotes from a joint statement issued by RSPB and 3 other bird organisations says ‘these groups played down the risk of migrating birds bringing bird flu to Scotland. The ‘RSPB’ statement said there was no definite proof migratory birds can transmit the disease. Although there was a theoretical risk birds could bring the virus to the UK, they believe the risk is higher from imported poultry or the pet trade.’
So there you have it, without a shred of proof, they come away with a statement that says don’t blame wild birds – more likely that some ‘domestic’ breed is at fault. Now doesn’t that sound a bit like some of our posts? 
Never mind the consequences, its not our birds, lets get on with our racing – while millions of people die around us - racing over the channel from a dead continent? 
. Thats why they speak about this strain (H5N1) - there's actually about a dozen of them. The one in Holland two years ago was a different one again.
- get informed, get ready and take action BEFORE Bird Flu arrives and show that you are behaving in a public-minded and responsible way. No Judge anywhere is ever going to find against you if you do. 
