Pigeonbasics.com

i have heard  that a treatment for canker is getting the end of a match (the one that ignites) and slowly rubbing it onto the infected area of the mouth (if caught in the early stages).  

BEST OFF GIVING THE INFECTED BIRD A SPARTRIX TABLET, AND IF IT DOESNT GO IN TWO DAYS, GIVE IT ANOTHER, IT SOON CLEARS. I WOULDNT REMOVE THE CHEESE LIKE SUBSTANCE AS IT MAY BLEED AND CHOKE THE BIRD!!

yes i agree with you sbelbin but you should remove the sick bird to treat it as they what all have it

Birdbrain, if you can see the canker enough to rub it with a match head, then it is not in the early stages and extends down the birds throat into the crop. The match will do absolutely no good, and if it is the only treatment will certainly do harm. Like Shelbin says give it Spartrix, and keep it seperate. If it is a new addition to the loft, it needs to build up immunity to the canker strains already in your flock. Read Pigeon Health and Management by the Flying Vet, Dr Colin Walker. It is an expensive book, but worth every penny.

Never heard of a match being used to remove canker ,but have seen it used to remove the cheese like substance from the throat when a bird has pox

Ah    hi ya shadow,little confussed with ya answer ,i though that" POX "was like warts,  around the eyes ,wattles,  yes, in the mouth,ect  but, i  like never new it, had any think to do with the "Cheese"  like stubstace that you get with "canker".As there is a vacine for the "Pox", &  treatment for Canker.So alittle confused,  Speckled.

BIRDBRAIN,I ALSO HEARD SOME YEARS AGO ABOUT USING A MATCH BUT CANT QUITE REMEMBER THE DETAILS BUT I DO KNOW OF A CURE THAT MY GRANDFATHER USED WITH GREAT SUCCESS AND THAT WAS TO GET A BOTTLE OF FOUNTAIN PEN INK IF YOU CAN STILL GET IT  AND WITH A FEATHER DIP IT INTO THE INK AND SORT OF PAINT IT ON TO THE INFECTED AREA,HAVE NOT HAD TO DO THIS FOR A LONG TIME NOW BUT IS DOES WORK.

THE IDEA WITH THE MATCH IS WELL OUTDATED NOW, IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE THE SULPHER IN THE MATCH THAT HELPED, NOWADAYS THERES FAR MORE MODERN ITEMS ON THE MARKET, SPARTRIX IS AS GOOD AS ANY BUT A LOT  DEARER THAN A BOX OF MATCHES

i remember attending a quiz night some years ago,a member of the panel that night was armand scheers well known dutch pigeon fancier  & authority on pigeon health matters,during the question  & answer session the subject of  canker in pigeons came up.from memory he stated that there were approx. 29 different strains of trichomonasis(canker),26 of which were fairly mild & could be treated with over the counter products supplied by your corn merchant,but ther were 3 very virulent strains which these products would not shift,he suggested these could be tackled by using metronidazole tablets(only obtainable from your vet)1/4 tablet given prior to pairing & 1/4tablet every 4 -5 weeks during racing, hope this helps.

if any one you know on holiday in continent tell them to get you fragyl [i think thats the right name,] its sold over the counter there and is very cheap, its actualy for humans and available on prescription here.it will cost you about 3 euros

JIMMY THE NAME OF THE STUFF YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT IS "FLAGYL" IT IS USED AS AN ORAL TREATMENT FOR THRUSH IN HUMANS, HALF A TABLET PER BIRD AS IT IS BASED ON A 250mg TABLET.

HOPE IT HELPS

I ALSO ATTENDED AN ARMAND SCHEERS TALK AND ANSWER SESSION A FEW YEARS BACK AND YES BILLYMAC HE SAID EXACTLY THE SAME AS WHAT YOU ARE SAYING WITH REGARDS TO TREAMENTS.


HE ALSO SAID "ALL" PIGEONS ARE CARRIERS OF AT LEAST ONE STRAIN/LEVEL OF CANKER AND IT JUST NEEDS THEM TO REACH A CERTIAN LEVEL OF STRESS TO TRIGGER THE CANKER OFF.

HOPE IT HELPS

Speckled of course you were right my brain was not in gear that day thanks for pointing it out bet you had a good laugh

Hi ya Shadow, never mind,but No only a chuckle. got the brain in gear now i hope. On the ball Speckled.

Birdbrain Hi Mate , Spartrix is okay but Metronidazole is by     far the best from the vet approx 20-30pence per tablet matchsticks and ink is just codswallop i'm afraid   good luck buddy

Haven't seen canker in years so can't say how I would go about treating it. I would be more worried about the underlying cause though, because a healthy bird lives with trich all the time and, when healthy, its own body systems keep trich levels low. Also, if it bleeds, then I know you haven't got canker - you have something much more serious. Get the bird isolated and get someone knowledgeable to double-check this bird for you

have to say bruno  [its getting on to bruno time haha]you said in an earlier post that you couldnt find anything offensive,,, in taking a sick bird to a fellow fancier    ,the previous post explains this . youve never seen canker in years.  well if someone brought a canker ridden bird to you., im quite sure you would see it then, in your own birds.i understand you were meaning well , and i could see what you were meaning, but you wouldnt catch it over the phone.  phew that was a bit of a nasty one, hope you take the right way.  jimmy

Completely missed this one, Jimmy, you midden!  

Take your point (up to a point   ) about taking a sick pigeon to a fancier; there's a big difference in seeing a bird and trying to 'see' in your mind's eye what the bird may look like from various descriptions - like in this forum. Still not sure whether the bird has pox or canker, but coming down on pox.  

Then there's the advice to give the bird a treatment which is actually to get rid of a candida (a yeast / plant) - for canker (a protozoan / animal)

But on your last point - me spreading the illness to or from my birds - it just can't happen.  I've shown 2 birds with eye problems to a local fancier (in my own loft) WITHOUT him handling them. I also sprayed my hands with Virkon before touching anything else. If I was asked to look at a bird and give an opinion (and that's all it could be because I'm no expert) I'd probably handle it, and again use my Virkon spray.

Where do you get Virkon-S from Bruno??

Sbelbin, I get mine from my local granary 'Russell's Country Stores' Stirling Road, Larbert (near the bus Depot).

Retails at around £1.30 a sachet which makes 5 litres.

Our 'local' Central Scotland grain & specifics supplier Tam Law 'Woodside Farm' Stirling Road, Torwood, also stocks it.  

Would pre-prepared crushed garlic in the water do the same as a clove of garlic? , i,m thinking it might lose something in the manufacturing process am i right or wrong?
cheers

I've never heard of pre-prepared crushed garlic, Celtic.  

But if it has been processed, heat treated or is a dry product, then I suspect that you are correct, that the natural moisture content has gone in the processing and  most of the 'active stuff' with it.

It's certainly not dried - more a sort of paste but there may well be preservatives in it  

This is how i do my garlic but ask the wife first.
I use a full bulb of garlic the biggest you can get i peel and put in a blender all the juice i put into a 2 litre plastic pop bottle and fill to the top with water.
I put a 1/4 inch into a 3 pint drinker and fill up with clean water my birds get this 6 days a week.

Going back a bit in the thread "Is this Canker?". Turned up this article, sub-title explains its relevance.  

While the articles describes the disease, the fungus itself is the 'white hairy stuff' you  can see growing on a mat of droppings that have been lying undisturbed for days, for example if you've been away for a few days or haven't been able to clean out during the week in winter.


ASPERGILLOSIS

"Often mistaken for Canker or Tuberculosis.

The symptoms are hard growth or lump in the windpipe, gaping for breath, sneezing, coughing, nasal & throat discharges, diarrhoea, swollen joints or lameness. Throat canker shows as a soft easily removable cheesy growth; Aspergillosis is hard and embedded into tissue and cannot be removed without excessive bleeding or pain to the bird, it also attacks the liver and spleen where it may be revealed as white growths in autopsy. Infected birds are best destroyed as full recovery is unlikely. The cause is fungus and mould spores usually floating within the immediate environment of the loft. These proliferate from damp deep litter straw or hay which lay dormant until temperature increases and are only one of many fungal entities lurking therein to cause a variety of illnesses. Another cause is mouldy feed stuff i.e. blackened beans/peas, sour wheat/barley, powdery maize (use your eyesign glass to inspect for blue/grey mouldy powder and smell for sourness) Fumigate the loft with a mould destroying agent i.e. Greenhouse smoke bomb (remove all birds) sterilise all drinkers, grit boxes, corn bins etc.. Valuable stock may be treated although very time consuming : paint a solution of aqueous iodine, glycerine and honey onto the affected throat area with an artist brush. This solution must also be added to the drinking water for patient and uninfected birds alike. There is no 100% cure and vital organ damage will remain permanently. "

A good pigeon disinfectant like Virkon or Stalosan keeps you clear of this stuff too.

preston power blast gave the right dosage for flagyl in tablet form, if you get the liquid form its 5 to 10 ml to i litre of water for 5 to 10 days, whether it be tablet or liquid its great for all types of canker, and cheap if you get it in spain , over the counter, less than 3 pounds a bottle, any one on holiday will get it easy

i use gambacoccid r.o used for both canker & cocci birds on it for 6days

I've often wondered about so called 'preventative' treatment. In my opinion it's one of the biggest differences between general pigeon management in the 60's and now.

In my opinion, you're basically doing medicinally what the bird's immune system should be doing naturally in the first place. If the bird can't naturally keep itself free from canker, cocci and worms - and the only reason why it can't must be down to poor constitution - then preventative probably does more harm than good, both to perfectly healthy birds' immune systems, and propping up the not so healthy that perhaps shouldn't be there in the first place.

you have a good point there   bruno

as jimmy says good point  bruno seems stress also causes canker to multiply ? pigeons stress during transportation , a lot of fanciers give a low dose preventative during every other week of the racing season as well as a sunday dip in diluted potasium permanganate .the breeding season is different ? as 75 % of all pigeons carry canker of some form  , most manage to develop an imunity  that restricts its progress ? that imunity is passed down during feeding ,by the adult birds to their young, continued low doses being fed into the youngsters helps them to gradualy develop their own imunity ! so there may when  times not to treat ?  iorn sulphate and copper sulphate are essential in the formation of their  red blood cells , i  have an old iorn tonic recipe with two of these items in it  if i can find it ...... any one else have a copy of this ?

can someone please tell me if i should treat for canker etc? i have not as yet gave anything at all medicine wise ecept garlic 4-5 times a week, & johnsons pigeon tonic once every 2 weeks, & a good belgium grit, with oyster shell & a sprinkling of charcoal on top.?
any advice

Personally, we never routinely medicate, ruins the birds natural immune system

cheers hyacinth, will leave alone unless i spot somthing.

Sound Idea Martin

Snowy all the top lofts will be treating for canker before pairing or when the birds have laid the second egg i use flagyl tablets 1/4 tablet per bird.Reading some of the posts on here spartrix is just the same as flagyl but you pay £15 from harkers if you go to vets and ask for metronidazol tablets they work out £3 a packet for 21 when you give them a 1/4 tablet each 84 doses for £3 saving £12 from harkers spartrix.The rubbing of a red match to get rid of canker just get rids of the canker on the surface not deep in the crop snowy this day and age only healthy birds win races.

I have not routinely treated for any thing for the last 5 years and my birds are still winning and never seem to ail anything including young bird sickness.  

shadow how many firsts are you getting a year and how many fed positions?

I don't medicate and I win absolutely nowt, so couldn't in all honesty reply to Snowy's original post, one way or the other.  

However, here's someone who does win, and his birds win the world over, Bernard Deweerdt: here's what he says on p27 in this weeks BHW (30/12):

"Bernard Deweerdt says one of the main reasons for their strength is the fact that they are not routinely given any medication. In a loft where inbreeding & linebreeding is practiced, he feels it important to only breed from the healthiest of birds.

As young birds they are not given any supplementary medicines. If a young bird has a dirty wattle, or it is sat in a corner with its feathers ruffled and looking very sad, it is left to get better by itself. It is not seperated from the others. If it is not capable of getting over minor ailments on its own then fate takes its course. You must question why one bird gets ill and others do not. The ones that do not become ill have a greater resistance to pigeon diseases and these are the ones that form the Deweerdt lofts. "

After that, and with just two birds with health problems in 2005, I for one am confident enough not to change from relying upon natural resistance inside the bird, and good loft hygeine outside it.

good points, but i think its best to leave well alone unless i spot somthing, as im sure i will at the first signs, spend as much time as i can handling the birds & all are calm in the hand & 99% of them eat from my hand, & all seem healthy,
thanks anyway for the advice.

Bruno thanks for the replie maybe we should have a poll to see who treats for worms cocci etc. Bruno one question i would like to ask do your birds have worms canker cocci etc ?

Bruno thanks for the replie maybe we should have a poll to see who treats for worms cocci etc. Bruno one question i would like to ask do your birds have worms canker cocci etc ?

Hi, I treat for canker, cocci, and worms. I dont think you can possibly get to the top in this sport if you dont treat regular during the season. To fly consistantly the birds must be 100% fit and healthy, And I cant see how untreated birds can be healthy with the amount of stress the birds endure from racing and mixing with god knows how many other birds on the transporters.
Health, fitness, motivation and a bit of luck.

Basiacally i agree with Hyacinth,but i do canker after the birds have finished breeding. all the birds will get treated once, with B.S. form Belgica De Weerd. Speckled.