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Would pre-prepared crushed garlic in the water do the same as a clove of garlic? , i,m thinking it might lose something in the manufacturing process am i right or wrong?
cheers

I've never heard of pre-prepared crushed garlic, Celtic.  

But if it has been processed, heat treated or is a dry product, then I suspect that you are correct, that the natural moisture content has gone in the processing and  most of the 'active stuff' with it.

It's certainly not dried - more a sort of paste but there may well be preservatives in it  

This is how i do my garlic but ask the wife first.
I use a full bulb of garlic the biggest you can get i peel and put in a blender all the juice i put into a 2 litre plastic pop bottle and fill to the top with water.
I put a 1/4 inch into a 3 pint drinker and fill up with clean water my birds get this 6 days a week.

Going back a bit in the thread "Is this Canker?". Turned up this article, sub-title explains its relevance.  

While the articles describes the disease, the fungus itself is the 'white hairy stuff' you  can see growing on a mat of droppings that have been lying undisturbed for days, for example if you've been away for a few days or haven't been able to clean out during the week in winter.


ASPERGILLOSIS

"Often mistaken for Canker or Tuberculosis.

The symptoms are hard growth or lump in the windpipe, gaping for breath, sneezing, coughing, nasal & throat discharges, diarrhoea, swollen joints or lameness. Throat canker shows as a soft easily removable cheesy growth; Aspergillosis is hard and embedded into tissue and cannot be removed without excessive bleeding or pain to the bird, it also attacks the liver and spleen where it may be revealed as white growths in autopsy. Infected birds are best destroyed as full recovery is unlikely. The cause is fungus and mould spores usually floating within the immediate environment of the loft. These proliferate from damp deep litter straw or hay which lay dormant until temperature increases and are only one of many fungal entities lurking therein to cause a variety of illnesses. Another cause is mouldy feed stuff i.e. blackened beans/peas, sour wheat/barley, powdery maize (use your eyesign glass to inspect for blue/grey mouldy powder and smell for sourness) Fumigate the loft with a mould destroying agent i.e. Greenhouse smoke bomb (remove all birds) sterilise all drinkers, grit boxes, corn bins etc.. Valuable stock may be treated although very time consuming : paint a solution of aqueous iodine, glycerine and honey onto the affected throat area with an artist brush. This solution must also be added to the drinking water for patient and uninfected birds alike. There is no 100% cure and vital organ damage will remain permanently. "

A good pigeon disinfectant like Virkon or Stalosan keeps you clear of this stuff too.

preston power blast gave the right dosage for flagyl in tablet form, if you get the liquid form its 5 to 10 ml to i litre of water for 5 to 10 days, whether it be tablet or liquid its great for all types of canker, and cheap if you get it in spain , over the counter, less than 3 pounds a bottle, any one on holiday will get it easy

i use gambacoccid r.o used for both canker & cocci birds on it for 6days

I've often wondered about so called 'preventative' treatment. In my opinion it's one of the biggest differences between general pigeon management in the 60's and now.

In my opinion, you're basically doing medicinally what the bird's immune system should be doing naturally in the first place. If the bird can't naturally keep itself free from canker, cocci and worms - and the only reason why it can't must be down to poor constitution - then preventative probably does more harm than good, both to perfectly healthy birds' immune systems, and propping up the not so healthy that perhaps shouldn't be there in the first place.

you have a good point there   bruno

as jimmy says good point  bruno seems stress also causes canker to multiply ? pigeons stress during transportation , a lot of fanciers give a low dose preventative during every other week of the racing season as well as a sunday dip in diluted potasium permanganate .the breeding season is different ? as 75 % of all pigeons carry canker of some form  , most manage to develop an imunity  that restricts its progress ? that imunity is passed down during feeding ,by the adult birds to their young, continued low doses being fed into the youngsters helps them to gradualy develop their own imunity ! so there may when  times not to treat ?  iorn sulphate and copper sulphate are essential in the formation of their  red blood cells , i  have an old iorn tonic recipe with two of these items in it  if i can find it ...... any one else have a copy of this ?

can someone please tell me if i should treat for canker etc? i have not as yet gave anything at all medicine wise ecept garlic 4-5 times a week, & johnsons pigeon tonic once every 2 weeks, & a good belgium grit, with oyster shell & a sprinkling of charcoal on top.?
any advice

Personally, we never routinely medicate, ruins the birds natural immune system

cheers hyacinth, will leave alone unless i spot somthing.

Sound Idea Martin

Snowy all the top lofts will be treating for canker before pairing or when the birds have laid the second egg i use flagyl tablets 1/4 tablet per bird.Reading some of the posts on here spartrix is just the same as flagyl but you pay £15 from harkers if you go to vets and ask for metronidazol tablets they work out £3 a packet for 21 when you give them a 1/4 tablet each 84 doses for £3 saving £12 from harkers spartrix.The rubbing of a red match to get rid of canker just get rids of the canker on the surface not deep in the crop snowy this day and age only healthy birds win races.

I have not routinely treated for any thing for the last 5 years and my birds are still winning and never seem to ail anything including young bird sickness.  

shadow how many firsts are you getting a year and how many fed positions?

I don't medicate and I win absolutely nowt, so couldn't in all honesty reply to Snowy's original post, one way or the other.  

However, here's someone who does win, and his birds win the world over, Bernard Deweerdt: here's what he says on p27 in this weeks BHW (30/12):

"Bernard Deweerdt says one of the main reasons for their strength is the fact that they are not routinely given any medication. In a loft where inbreeding & linebreeding is practiced, he feels it important to only breed from the healthiest of birds.

As young birds they are not given any supplementary medicines. If a young bird has a dirty wattle, or it is sat in a corner with its feathers ruffled and looking very sad, it is left to get better by itself. It is not seperated from the others. If it is not capable of getting over minor ailments on its own then fate takes its course. You must question why one bird gets ill and others do not. The ones that do not become ill have a greater resistance to pigeon diseases and these are the ones that form the Deweerdt lofts. "

After that, and with just two birds with health problems in 2005, I for one am confident enough not to change from relying upon natural resistance inside the bird, and good loft hygeine outside it.

good points, but i think its best to leave well alone unless i spot somthing, as im sure i will at the first signs, spend as much time as i can handling the birds & all are calm in the hand & 99% of them eat from my hand, & all seem healthy,
thanks anyway for the advice.

Bruno thanks for the replie maybe we should have a poll to see who treats for worms cocci etc. Bruno one question i would like to ask do your birds have worms canker cocci etc ?